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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

are we all just wank material?

215 replies

piqueen · 17/03/2023 00:30

I've been speaking to a few different people online in a group for my hobby.
The women are all normal, the men have mostly been normal. (age from 20-50)
I've been speaking to 3 men, very polite. Everything on topic. As soon as the sun goes down, all 3 become rude, sexual innuendos and asking if I'm alone in bed.
Why?!
It is so boring and predictable and now I feel like leaving the group because its so fucking insulting.

This is a group where people can message privately only, and I get mostly messages from men, there are maybe 10x the amount of men on here than women. Now I'm wondering if they all come on just to talk dirty to women.

OP posts:
Cantbebothered90 · 18/03/2023 10:39

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

ssd · 18/03/2023 11:24

Jedsnewstar · 18/03/2023 08:32

idiot

Show quote history

Pathetic response

TobeLeRone · 18/03/2023 12:35

Mark19735 · 18/03/2023 08:12

If you want to talk about cultures and poison - try dance classes. The standard ballet and tap. Thousands of them up and down the country. Kids as young as 4 being taught hyper-sexualised moves, then performing them at a gala show at the end of the year to an approving audience. The older ones are usually encouraged to choreograph their own routines - I must have seen five successive variations on the Flashdance shower dance with sixteen year olds in fishnets sitting on a chair in the Christine Keeler pose. The participants are 99% girls. The 1% boys are usually too young to have come out yet but it's patently only a matter of time until they do. The teachers are all women. The assistants who demonstrate the moves are all older girls. The audience in 75% mums and grans. There is no way - no way at all - that it can be said that this segment of society is populated by, run for the benefit of, or directly influenced in any way by men. These girls are being groomed - by women - to have a body shape, mannerisms and posture that is pleasing to the male gaze. (And also the female gaze, no doubt). See also FGM. A crime perpetrated by women, against girls ... but blamed on men. Why is that? There are other root causes than just "AMALT"

Yes, you’re right, but the structure behind this goes back to times when it was openly accepted that women were the property of men, were inferior, only had any social standing once married, and only married well if they complied to societal expectations (or had family money backing them). Even in poor families a woman’s worth was in her marriage and her ability to produce sons. For a long time women have had to keep up with harmful beauty standards or being available for their men, disregarding their own needs. Even now it’s known that when a wife gets seriously ill many husbands run for the hills. If a woman wants to be with a man there are compromises. Many of us have realised that the compromises we make are too high a price to pay. Life is better without them.

These things are so deeply ingrained into women, even now. Maybe less so now, as more women reject mediocre men, and some countries have whole feminist movements that reject all men.

It’s going to take time, and men will continue to accept systems that keep women down, but I think eventually (assuming we don’t have some devastating handmaid’s tale scenario forced upon us) there will be a trickle down effect where men actually do better, and start treating women like they are equal humans and stepping up against woman-hating movements (like liberal feminism).

PearCrumbleCustard · 18/03/2023 12:46

I really think generalisations are never helpful, most men aren’t awful. There are cultural factors at play which I think helps more men than women feel entitled, but I think a lot of women feed into this also. Like see how many women stick up on mumsnet forums for these:

If we’re going to go down the feminism route though, today’s accepted feminism tells us a few things:

men can be women if they want, with access all areas
Sex work is work, and a valid choice for young women to choose
porn is empowering and all men and plenty of women watch it.

I am against all of the above.

Women are so key often to social cultural norms, we have a lot of power to change them, and often we don’t. Not sure why!

User135644 · 18/03/2023 14:55

PearCrumbleCustard · 18/03/2023 12:46

I really think generalisations are never helpful, most men aren’t awful. There are cultural factors at play which I think helps more men than women feel entitled, but I think a lot of women feed into this also. Like see how many women stick up on mumsnet forums for these:

If we’re going to go down the feminism route though, today’s accepted feminism tells us a few things:

men can be women if they want, with access all areas
Sex work is work, and a valid choice for young women to choose
porn is empowering and all men and plenty of women watch it.

I am against all of the above.

Women are so key often to social cultural norms, we have a lot of power to change them, and often we don’t. Not sure why!

There's more women than men in the country. More women than men vote. An increasing percentage of women MPs each parliament, two female PMs in tge last 5 years. Women have plenty of power to change things.

Shitfather · 18/03/2023 15:36

Ponderoveryonder · 17/03/2023 23:04

@Shitfather
why would you entertain your married friend sending you messages like that?
why would you want a friend who thought that was ok?

I cut off the conversation as soon as there is a hint of any of this. I don’t entertain them and I certainly do not respond. There’s invariably a decent conversation beforehand. He’s like the other men described, but he has a lot of redeeming qualities too.

TheMatriarchy · 18/03/2023 16:17

Online men and men in real life seem to be a different species. Online men behave like this routinely, IRL men do not. Are they the same men, I don't know.

What I have noticed however, is that threads like this are magnets to the men of mumsnet. You dont get mark12345 or cantbebothered getting their 2p in on the 'whats this rash on my baby', or 'this happened at work today', but put wank or porn in the title and the site suddenly becomes a lot more mixed sex.
Says it all really.

Mark19735 · 18/03/2023 16:45

I'm sometimes convinced that most MN threads are populated by men pretending to be women. Or AI chatbots pretending to be human. Some of the opinions stated are so dogmatic, hate-filled, inflexible and frankly discriminatory that they can only be intended as parody.

emptythelitterbox · 18/03/2023 17:57

TheMatriarchy · 18/03/2023 16:17

Online men and men in real life seem to be a different species. Online men behave like this routinely, IRL men do not. Are they the same men, I don't know.

What I have noticed however, is that threads like this are magnets to the men of mumsnet. You dont get mark12345 or cantbebothered getting their 2p in on the 'whats this rash on my baby', or 'this happened at work today', but put wank or porn in the title and the site suddenly becomes a lot more mixed sex.
Says it all really.

Men in RL also seem to not know any other men who do these things. Amazing isn't it!

I'm not sure I've ever seen a man on here ever giving that type of advice. Should I go to A&E, having problems with toddler for x, suggestions for cleaning x, woman being abused, All crickets from men.

Anything sex, dick, porn, problems with their hurt feels, they're on those threads with bells on and NAMALT thrown in for good measure.

Onnabugeisha · 18/03/2023 17:58

piqueen · 17/03/2023 00:30

I've been speaking to a few different people online in a group for my hobby.
The women are all normal, the men have mostly been normal. (age from 20-50)
I've been speaking to 3 men, very polite. Everything on topic. As soon as the sun goes down, all 3 become rude, sexual innuendos and asking if I'm alone in bed.
Why?!
It is so boring and predictable and now I feel like leaving the group because its so fucking insulting.

This is a group where people can message privately only, and I get mostly messages from men, there are maybe 10x the amount of men on here than women. Now I'm wondering if they all come on just to talk dirty to women.

Well, apparently 3 men do. But that’s hardly an adequate sample size from which to conclude all men do.

emptythelitterbox · 18/03/2023 17:59

Mark19735 · 18/03/2023 16:45

I'm sometimes convinced that most MN threads are populated by men pretending to be women. Or AI chatbots pretending to be human. Some of the opinions stated are so dogmatic, hate-filled, inflexible and frankly discriminatory that they can only be intended as parody.

Quite a few are men pretending to be women. Far too many have issues with women congregating and speaking so they bully, harrass, and try to chase off women.

Cantbebothered90 · 18/03/2023 18:07

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Hence · 18/03/2023 18:27

Not all men are like this... but it is such a large amount of men that it may as well be. The very few men that aren't like this also seem not to be good at calling the shit majority out. My DH is not like this, but he would never call it out, which to me is almost as bad.

Sealwright · 18/03/2023 18:34

Sometimes it does feel like that. It's heartbreaking that we have no spaces to go to, not even online, that men won't turn wierd. Do we all have to go incognito just to stay safe?

Burgoo · 18/03/2023 18:39

@piqueen No you are being ludicrous and TBH a bit egocentric. Not every man is interested in you, no matter how attractive you think you are (not YOU I mean generally). Get over yourselves.

Some men (just like some women) are sexualised and some aren't.

Imagine if I asked "why do women do X?" as though women are one homogenous group. PEOPLE are arseholes, regardless of gender.

ClemFandango1 · 18/03/2023 18:41

Men are the worst. I think I genuinely hate them (apart from my brother).

Robyn847 · 18/03/2023 18:44

are we all just wank material?

Nope. No. I am definitely NOT wank material. Nope. I can't convey just how much nope.

Greenfairydust · 18/03/2023 19:04

@Cantbebothered90

''As a man I am gonna say yes to your question. I am happily married and have no female friends as females serve no purpose to me''

So WTF are you on Mumsnet?

thefactsarefriendly · 18/03/2023 21:14

If you want the men who do this stuff to stop, they need to understand that they are outliers, not the norm.

This is the stuff of fairytales. They are the norm, and the outliers are the emotionally and sexually continent men.

Not because of the OP's anecdata. Because of the hard data that reveal the extent of the sexual harassment aimed at women. And judging by the Everyone's Invited phenomenon, this seedy and predatory behaviour starts very young.

The women (and men) who come on here claiming they know at least 3 men who are lovely and would never do this need to understand that all they are providing is meaningless anecdata that makes them feel safe. The reality is, as we all know, that the internet allows those of a predatory disposition to flourish because there are few real-world consequences.

And of the men who are mild-mannered and well-behaved, the main issue is that they do not speak up against the sewer that is their fellow men's behaviour. If they cared enough, they would do something to police themselves. There's simply not the motivation.

Regularsizedrudy · 18/03/2023 21:16

Men are always finding new and novel ways to disappoint

Cantbebothered90 · 18/03/2023 21:22

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

CremeEggQueen · 18/03/2023 21:27

Greenfairydust · 18/03/2023 19:04

@Cantbebothered90

''As a man I am gonna say yes to your question. I am happily married and have no female friends as females serve no purpose to me''

So WTF are you on Mumsnet?

Ermmm. ... you realise that MN is for anyone, right?
It even says so right in the tagline.
For parents by parents or something like that anyway.
Men have just as much right as everyone else on here.

Regularsizedrudy · 18/03/2023 21:31

CremeEggQueen · 18/03/2023 21:27

Ermmm. ... you realise that MN is for anyone, right?
It even says so right in the tagline.
For parents by parents or something like that anyway.
Men have just as much right as everyone else on here.

Show quote history

I think they meant if females serve no purpose to them why are they on mn talking to females. Could be wrong though. ..really fancy a cream egg now

CremeEggQueen · 18/03/2023 21:32

really fancy a cream egg now

😁

Avarua2 · 18/03/2023 21:33

Hence · 18/03/2023 07:50

I am a massive nerd and like to play things like Risk online. I have to play with a fake male profile now, as I would either get men hitting on me or when I won I would get men saying they were going to find me and rape me.

This is dreadful.