Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

are we all just wank material?

215 replies

piqueen · 17/03/2023 00:30

I've been speaking to a few different people online in a group for my hobby.
The women are all normal, the men have mostly been normal. (age from 20-50)
I've been speaking to 3 men, very polite. Everything on topic. As soon as the sun goes down, all 3 become rude, sexual innuendos and asking if I'm alone in bed.
Why?!
It is so boring and predictable and now I feel like leaving the group because its so fucking insulting.

This is a group where people can message privately only, and I get mostly messages from men, there are maybe 10x the amount of men on here than women. Now I'm wondering if they all come on just to talk dirty to women.

OP posts:
Templebreedy · 18/03/2023 00:46

Underminer · 18/03/2023 00:34

Years ago for a university project, my group put together some social media profiles. One we used a photo of one of the women in the group, the other a photo of one of the men, and the other we put a photo of a cat. We didn’t link the accounts, posted the exact same content. We have Jo, Joe and Joey the cat.

The female profile received 6 times as much profile views as the male. The cat received the least.
The female account revived the most direct messages, often unsolicited. The male profile the next amount, but it was a fifth of the amount our female profile got.

It wasn’t long before creeps crawled out the wood work. 10 o clocK is 10 o cock is absolutely true. Men direct messaging with compliments and soon trying to make a saving for their wank bank. When it was clear we were interested, the insults came out. Bitch, slut etc.
No one tried to make wank bank savings to our male or cat profile.
So, not all men, but it is all men. Wish I still had the results of our findings.
if you’re reading this and are a journalist, set up this experiment, it won’t be long before a creeper reveals himself.

Is this to a large extent a SM thing, then? Mn is the closest I get to SM, which may explain why I have warm, supportive, platonic male friends in RL, but have never encountered this form of online sleaze.

notthisagainforest · 18/03/2023 01:04

piqueen · 17/03/2023 01:42

the hobby is creative writing and poetry. Strictly no sexual reference in the group. it is why I chose it.
. Come 10 o clock, 10 o cock.
At least now I know why there are so many men and so little women.
I'm looking for similar groups, they aren't very popular (except for men trying to sneakily talk about their sexual preferences)
I was chatting to one and asked what book he is reading currently- erotic literature was his answer. It's a group for reading and writing and poetry. not to get your rocks off

But men are just pathetic and dirty they don't seem to be able to help themselves. It's embarrassing for them

Ovidnaso · 18/03/2023 01:17

This is just such an odd and alien view of the world and of human relationships. It's nothing like anyone I know. Most men I know would be very surprised and offended to hear they were thought to be desperate for sex, needed to "pursue" anyone or would consider such behaviour even if they did feel in need of sex that badly.

CallieQ · 18/03/2023 01:21

@FellOnMyArseToDay

no, all men are like that. Some are just better at hiding it. All men benefit from misogyny Hood men need bad men to look not as bad. Men need to sort their shot out.

?? Does this make sense

No all men are not like that ... I know several who aren't

CallieQ · 18/03/2023 01:24

@SweetSenorita

Basically, with exceptions so few as to be statistically meaningless, they are 🤷

I really don't know what kind of men you mix with but this is not my experience

CremeEggQueen · 18/03/2023 01:25

Yeah, that seems like a those you have met thing
To get your title from that seems a bit off, it's not all is it

ConcordeOoter · 18/03/2023 01:31

I would block them, then post anonymously to the group (if it is allowed, ask an admin) that naming no names three separate men have cornered you with inappropriate messages recently and how horrible, grubby and disappointing that is on a group where you discuss a wholesome hobby.

(Note: I have no personal objection to naming them but if you avoid that you stand more of a chance of making the group generally better and casting the light of shame on the behaviour without any nonsense)

TrishM80 · 18/03/2023 01:57

Aibu is getting like the feminist forum every day with these gratuitous and over-generalising men-bashing threads.

AngelinaFibres · 18/03/2023 02:37

Pencilsaremylife · 17/03/2023 02:07

Yep being online seems to give these inadequate men courage.
GROUP SCENARIO
Woman joins online group to share interest with like minded people.
Man joins online group to fake share interest with women he can hit on.
Woman joins online group to perhaps extend her social group.
Man joins online group hoping to extend his sex life.
Woman leaves group to get away from being pestered.
Man stays in group hoping next woman to join has poor boundaries and will put up with being harassed.

Absolutely this. I am married and in a walking group which my husband also sometimes attends. We have a new member, a man. He brings a very large, very expensive camera with him each time. Everyone else uses the camera on their phone. He has lots of loooooong lenses.I don't give a shit about his lenses ( and increasingly whether he is even breathing) He seems to be bringing it all as a means of talking about 'very long things' and 'very big things,' blah fucking blah, to any woman who is within 2 feet of him..I am a 57 year old happily married granny of 1.He could be hung like a bloody donkey and I just couldn't care less.Sexual innuendo....no thanks.Flirting.....no thanks. Any reference to any body parts of any kind....no thanks. I just want to walk and get fitter and have a pleasant chat.

704703hey · 18/03/2023 02:39

TrishM80 · 18/03/2023 01:57

Aibu is getting like the feminist forum every day with these gratuitous and over-generalising men-bashing threads.

I think you're missing the point.

@piqueen (OP) joined a writing site. I joined a British history site.

These are not dating sites so it's completely out of order to receive inappropriate messages from men

PearCrumbleCustard · 18/03/2023 02:44

Just give the 🙄emoji every time.

PearCrumbleCustard · 18/03/2023 02:46

TrishM80 · 18/03/2023 01:57

Aibu is getting like the feminist forum every day with these gratuitous and over-generalising men-bashing threads.

I don’t think all men are awful, but the OP is talking about a particular specific issue with her creative writing whatsapp group.

CantAskAnyoneElse · 18/03/2023 06:29

Yellowdays · 17/03/2023 23:10

Most men are not, unfortunately, feminists!

And thise who are, are lib fem’s, so it would be better if they weren’t ’feminists’ at all!

liveforsummer · 18/03/2023 07:10

You see this all the time with online dating. Only takes a few back and forth messages before they start testing the water and then I stop talking. One guy seemed really nice in others ways so when he came back to me at a later date I explained why I'd stopped - still only managed about 3/4 messages before he tried again. A year or so later he messaged again. He had news about something he'd been going through that I had experience of so again I told him what I thought of the sex talk and discussed his problem. Again he tried to turn it around in a pretty short space of time - no more chances! Wth though!

journeyofsanity · 18/03/2023 07:15

@BreviloquentBastard
Respectfully, go fuck yourself, you sad little pickme.
Why delude yourself that you are being respectful. The irony of calling people out for poor behaviour clearly goes over your head.

TobeLeRone · 18/03/2023 07:24

StepHigh · 17/03/2023 22:22

This simply isn’t true and also isn’t helpful. The idea that all men would do this sort of thing just legitimises the men who do it. We’d do better to emphasise that this behaviour really isn’t normal or acceptable. Also just wtf? Harassing women in an online group isn’t living the dream or something all men want to to do- it’s proper basement-dwelling behaviour.

I know women saying that all men do this think they’re fighting the feminist cause but I think the opposite is the case. If you want the men who do this stuff to stop, they need to understand that they are outliers, not the norm.

Show quote history

With respect, I don’t think you can assert your opinion on someone else’s and claim it isn’t true or helpful.

Many of us reach an age where we realise we see through the outward charm, and we see the everyday misogyny.
It’s not fighting a feminist cause, it’s having our eyes opened to the fact that many men, even the “good” ones, see women as there for men’s purpose.
This starts young - what’s the average age when men start ogling girls - is it 10 or 11? I forget. And porn? When do boys start looking at porn? Iirc average age is about 12. Most girls are harassed or assaulted in some way at secondary school, and are largely expected to suck it up.
There have been many threads pointing out that men will often charm women into marrying them, bearing their children, then being mediocre husbands and fathers from that point. All the men in my life are outwardly lovely and charming, but under the surface there’s always a level of misogyny that crops up now and again, that isn’t really recognised by many women - and that’s what many of us start to recognise, and it makes you feel like you’ve been played to serve a man’s purpose.

If we’re going to go down the feminism route though, today’s accepted feminism tells us a few things:

  1. men can be women if they want, with access all areas
  2. Sex work is work, and a valid choice for young women to choose
  3. porn is empowering and all men and plenty of women watch it.
I’d argue that the fact that this abominable collection of male accepted views are evidence enough that MMALT. If men genuinely respected women then each of the above points would be shut down immediately, as each are obviously harmful to women. Each also prioritises the feelings and wants of men. Funny how most men fully accept this type of feminism? The feminism that fully centres men’s desire for control over women? Funny how real, woman centred feminism is typically rejected and attacked by most men, or simply not discussed. Women who truly centre women are typically insulted for it, by plenty of so-called nice guys. There are few men who will genuinely stand up for women in each of those 3 points, and of the ones that do, sadly, many will be doing so because they think they’ve tapped into an uncharted source of women to send unsolicited messages to, as evidenced in messages similar to the ones the op has had.
butterfliedtwo · 18/03/2023 07:28

TobeLeRone · 18/03/2023 07:24

With respect, I don’t think you can assert your opinion on someone else’s and claim it isn’t true or helpful.

Many of us reach an age where we realise we see through the outward charm, and we see the everyday misogyny.
It’s not fighting a feminist cause, it’s having our eyes opened to the fact that many men, even the “good” ones, see women as there for men’s purpose.
This starts young - what’s the average age when men start ogling girls - is it 10 or 11? I forget. And porn? When do boys start looking at porn? Iirc average age is about 12. Most girls are harassed or assaulted in some way at secondary school, and are largely expected to suck it up.
There have been many threads pointing out that men will often charm women into marrying them, bearing their children, then being mediocre husbands and fathers from that point. All the men in my life are outwardly lovely and charming, but under the surface there’s always a level of misogyny that crops up now and again, that isn’t really recognised by many women - and that’s what many of us start to recognise, and it makes you feel like you’ve been played to serve a man’s purpose.

If we’re going to go down the feminism route though, today’s accepted feminism tells us a few things:

  1. men can be women if they want, with access all areas
  2. Sex work is work, and a valid choice for young women to choose
  3. porn is empowering and all men and plenty of women watch it.
I’d argue that the fact that this abominable collection of male accepted views are evidence enough that MMALT. If men genuinely respected women then each of the above points would be shut down immediately, as each are obviously harmful to women. Each also prioritises the feelings and wants of men. Funny how most men fully accept this type of feminism? The feminism that fully centres men’s desire for control over women? Funny how real, woman centred feminism is typically rejected and attacked by most men, or simply not discussed. Women who truly centre women are typically insulted for it, by plenty of so-called nice guys. There are few men who will genuinely stand up for women in each of those 3 points, and of the ones that do, sadly, many will be doing so because they think they’ve tapped into an uncharted source of women to send unsolicited messages to, as evidenced in messages similar to the ones the op has had.
Show quote history

👏👏

Hence · 18/03/2023 07:50

I am a massive nerd and like to play things like Risk online. I have to play with a fake male profile now, as I would either get men hitting on me or when I won I would get men saying they were going to find me and rape me.

fairywhale · 18/03/2023 08:03

Knullrufs · 17/03/2023 19:59

I think a significant amount of men lack emotional maturation milestones in childhood. Crap dads/low-quality male role-models a lot of the time. I genuinely think football culture fucks up a lot of men too. So you end up with these id-driven, emotional toddler-tier adults who don’t know themselves at all, and spin out when life doesn’t go 100% perfectly.

This!

Football culture is poison. Boys get pushed into it from the baby age and then all that many do at school playtime and after school is play football with no chance of proper socialisation or gaining abilities to function in a civilised society. And the rest of what goes with football culture follows.

And limited exposure to nurturing play. Most baby and toddler boys like to push dolls pushchairs and play with babies in group settings and dress up in what's considered girls outfits but how many parents provide that at home for their sons. By age 3 or 4 stereotypes and expected behavior have been drilled into them directly or indirectly. And those typed patterns of behaviour they learnt from parents and society are not usually nurturing or respectful behaviour.

Having said that, far from all men are CREEPs. The ones drawn to online stuff often are.

Mark19735 · 18/03/2023 08:12

If you want to talk about cultures and poison - try dance classes. The standard ballet and tap. Thousands of them up and down the country. Kids as young as 4 being taught hyper-sexualised moves, then performing them at a gala show at the end of the year to an approving audience. The older ones are usually encouraged to choreograph their own routines - I must have seen five successive variations on the Flashdance shower dance with sixteen year olds in fishnets sitting on a chair in the Christine Keeler pose. The participants are 99% girls. The 1% boys are usually too young to have come out yet but it's patently only a matter of time until they do. The teachers are all women. The assistants who demonstrate the moves are all older girls. The audience in 75% mums and grans. There is no way - no way at all - that it can be said that this segment of society is populated by, run for the benefit of, or directly influenced in any way by men. These girls are being groomed - by women - to have a body shape, mannerisms and posture that is pleasing to the male gaze. (And also the female gaze, no doubt). See also FGM. A crime perpetrated by women, against girls ... but blamed on men. Why is that? There are other root causes than just "AMALT"

StepHigh · 18/03/2023 08:21

TobeLeRone · 18/03/2023 07:24

With respect, I don’t think you can assert your opinion on someone else’s and claim it isn’t true or helpful.

Many of us reach an age where we realise we see through the outward charm, and we see the everyday misogyny.
It’s not fighting a feminist cause, it’s having our eyes opened to the fact that many men, even the “good” ones, see women as there for men’s purpose.
This starts young - what’s the average age when men start ogling girls - is it 10 or 11? I forget. And porn? When do boys start looking at porn? Iirc average age is about 12. Most girls are harassed or assaulted in some way at secondary school, and are largely expected to suck it up.
There have been many threads pointing out that men will often charm women into marrying them, bearing their children, then being mediocre husbands and fathers from that point. All the men in my life are outwardly lovely and charming, but under the surface there’s always a level of misogyny that crops up now and again, that isn’t really recognised by many women - and that’s what many of us start to recognise, and it makes you feel like you’ve been played to serve a man’s purpose.

If we’re going to go down the feminism route though, today’s accepted feminism tells us a few things:

  1. men can be women if they want, with access all areas
  2. Sex work is work, and a valid choice for young women to choose
  3. porn is empowering and all men and plenty of women watch it.
I’d argue that the fact that this abominable collection of male accepted views are evidence enough that MMALT. If men genuinely respected women then each of the above points would be shut down immediately, as each are obviously harmful to women. Each also prioritises the feelings and wants of men. Funny how most men fully accept this type of feminism? The feminism that fully centres men’s desire for control over women? Funny how real, woman centred feminism is typically rejected and attacked by most men, or simply not discussed. Women who truly centre women are typically insulted for it, by plenty of so-called nice guys. There are few men who will genuinely stand up for women in each of those 3 points, and of the ones that do, sadly, many will be doing so because they think they’ve tapped into an uncharted source of women to send unsolicited messages to, as evidenced in messages similar to the ones the op has had.
Show quote history

I stand by my previous post. This is not how all men behave. Claiming that it is (when it clearly isn’t) just legitimises the behaviour of the men who do behave like this.

I agree with your points about sex work and porn etc but they’re not really connected to my post.

Over40Overdating · 18/03/2023 08:30

If it’s not all men, then why don’t the NAMALTS ever go police, patronise, hector and insult the men who make these good ones look bad?
Why is it more important to spend their time telling women they are wrong / not allowed to have an opinion than it is to stop the rot from the ‘minority’ making the rest look bad?

Misogyny really rots the brain.

User135644 · 18/03/2023 08:30

Mark19735 · 18/03/2023 08:12

If you want to talk about cultures and poison - try dance classes. The standard ballet and tap. Thousands of them up and down the country. Kids as young as 4 being taught hyper-sexualised moves, then performing them at a gala show at the end of the year to an approving audience. The older ones are usually encouraged to choreograph their own routines - I must have seen five successive variations on the Flashdance shower dance with sixteen year olds in fishnets sitting on a chair in the Christine Keeler pose. The participants are 99% girls. The 1% boys are usually too young to have come out yet but it's patently only a matter of time until they do. The teachers are all women. The assistants who demonstrate the moves are all older girls. The audience in 75% mums and grans. There is no way - no way at all - that it can be said that this segment of society is populated by, run for the benefit of, or directly influenced in any way by men. These girls are being groomed - by women - to have a body shape, mannerisms and posture that is pleasing to the male gaze. (And also the female gaze, no doubt). See also FGM. A crime perpetrated by women, against girls ... but blamed on men. Why is that? There are other root causes than just "AMALT"

It's like all the Cosmopolitan type magazines and articles and celebrity nonsense with damaging messages for women. It's all written for women by women.

Jedsnewstar · 18/03/2023 08:32

CallieQ · 17/03/2023 00:56

NAMALT

idiot

WayToMemphis · 18/03/2023 09:34

@piqueen I've experienced similar situations. Maybe it is worse online? I've had less problems with in-person social/hobby groups (I'm part of a cycling group, and also participate in hiking group).

You may or may not be wank material, who knows? But that's very different from the pushy, aggressive, suggestive interactions that are pushed on us by many men.