Schoolgirl kicked in head by boy in unisex toilets- is the idea of unisex unworkable?

[Xoxoxoxoxoxox]

A boy in a school toilets in Coventry has kicked in a door in in an attempt to photograph a 13 yr old girl and she has received head injuries.
When unisex toilets were introduced we were told they would be closely monitored but that is clearly ineffective and they are unsafe for girls.
Do you think they should be abolished?

Yabu Allow them
Yanbu Abolish them.

www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-schoolgirl-taken-hospital-after-26418069

[Tinysoxxx]

@Untitledsquatboulder

@FuckNuggets the unisex toilets I've seen in schools and universities have all had cubicles with floor to ceiling doors so far more secure against unwanted intrusion than the traditional cubicle model which you can see over and under. They've also been far more overseen from the corridor than traditional toilets, with the cubicles arranged in a semi circle and sinks in the middle. Less privacy when washing your hands but far less chance of unseen bullying, smoking or vandalism (to name the 3 favourite toilet-related pastimes of my youth - and I went to an all girls school).

Completely wrong - floor to ceiling doors mean there’s more likelihood of sexual activity, drug taking and vandalism (as well as risks to not being visible if people have collapsed behind the doors). Also smells linger and cleaning is more difficult.

[RichardBarrister]

Exactly. I know a number of kids who claim that sexual activity is taking place in these floor to ceiling cubicles and apparently boys pile in there as they are ideal for vaping as they each have a ceiling vent so don’t set the alarms off as readily. The HT admits that vaping is just as bad if not worse than in the single sex toilets.

The school has sent out a very harmful message that it is ok for male and female to be in very close proximity when using the toilet so it is a much smaller step for a bit to nip into a cubicle with a girl (whether she wants to or not) and sexually assault her. Our HT is affronted at claims that this happens which makes me wonder if she has actually met any teenagers. The fact is, whether it has happened or not, she has facilitated it.

One of the claims for the mixed sex toilets was to solve the vaping problem, so that has clearly failed, and they have introduced a whole load of new problems. Genius.

Now that some of the girls have been conditioned to accept males near them when they are on the toilet, what happens when they are in a public toilet and a man walks in. That is predatory behaviour but they might be slower to react because school has told them it is fine.

[RichardBarrister]

My daughter was hospitalised by girls in a toilet in school.
my transchild has been assaulted more than once in a toilet at school, he now uses the staff toilet. It’s not unisex toilets that’s the problem, it’s disgustingly raised kids who things that’s a way to behave

Out of interest which toilets was your transchild assaulted in and what was the reason for the assault?

[CruCru]

Crumbs. I’ve just googled Caludon Castle School.

Realistically, I’ll be amazed if they don’t go back to single sex toilets - if only because having these stories in the local papers is terrible PR.

[SinnerBoy]

I think that this is probably post of the day:

swallowedAfly · Yesterday 14:22

Single sex toilets unconsciously also teach boys that there are some spaces they cannot enter, that there are some boundaries around women that they cannot cross and must respect.

Why would you want to undermine that message or take it away?

[CruCru]

This story is now in the Telegraph.

[Cleargreysky]

@SinnerBoy

I think that this is probably post of the day:

swallowedAfly · Yesterday 14:22

Single sex toilets unconsciously also teach boys that there are some spaces they cannot enter, that there are some boundaries around women that they cannot cross and must respect.

Why would you want to undermine that message or take it away?

I 100 percent agree with this.

[Helleofabore]

@YetAnotherSpartacus

My daughter was hospitalised by girls in a toilet in school.
my transchild has been assaulted more than once in a toilet at school, he now uses the staff toilet. It’s not unisex toilets that’s the problem, it’s disgustingly raised kids who things that’s a way to behave.

But they clearly aren't helping, are they? So let's abolish them.

All we can do spart is to just keep repeating it, or so it seems.

It is almost like we need a post it for the top of each page.

I am all for addressing the violence and abusive behaviour of male students, and any female students. But at that same time, let's remove the additional risks to students that mixed sex toilets bring and the lack of privacy.

The two things do not need to be done consecutively, they most certainly can be addressed at the same time.

[jellyfrizz]

From what I've read, the justification for unisex toilets is behaviour.

Out of interest, anyone know what is done in boy's schools to deal with the bad-behaviour-in-toilets issue as they don't have girls to use as human behaviour regulators?

[nutbrownhare15]

I don't disagree that toilets should be segregated or if unisex should be one room with a strong lockable door and a sink within the same room. However interestingly a girl kicked a toilet door in when I was inside the cubicle when I was at secondary school so it's not behaviour that is limited to boys although taking photos is very concerning and probably genders behaviour.

[PumpkinQueen1]

YANBU

unisex toilets - especially in schools - is a ridiculous idea which puts women and girls at unnecessary risk.

I have 2 daughters, and none of us would feel safe going into a toilet with cubicles in a unisex toilet. I think the only way unisex toilets are workable is if it is a single bathroom used by one person at a time.

One of my daughters is 14. She doesn't like using the girls toilets at school due to period shaming by the other girls, and never uses the unisex toilets. But at least they are given an option. I wonder why schools think that teenage girls would want to use a toilet cubicle with boys stood outside?

[EsmaCannonball]

I never understand the logic behind the thinking that the kind of males who enjoy intimidating and sexually harassing females in public are going to behave like angels when gifted with a predator's dream: unisex toilets. Of course it's about toilets, because unisex toilets are simultaneously accessible and secluded, making them perfect for men who like harassing women. (And that's before you get into all the other creepy stuff men get up to once toilets become mixed sex.) Safeguarding is about doing all you can to minimise risk; anyone who says it's not about the toilets doesn't understand safeguarding. The one biggest, most impactful thing you can do to make women and girls safer is to give them female-only spaces.

[OMG12]

@TheOriginalEmu

My daughter was hospitalised by girls in a toilet in school.
my transchild has been assaulted more than once in a toilet at school, he now uses the staff toilet. It’s not unisex toilets that’s the problem, it’s disgustingly raised kids who things that’s a way to behave.

These are separate things though. Violence is never acceptable and should be tackled.

But protecting a trans child should not mean opening up women’s spaces to men who are statistically much more likely to commit violence than women. Plus girls and women have the right to dignity. Trans children should use the toilets according to their sex not preferred gender. No expectations should be created saying they can use the opposite sex toilets.

[KalimbaMoon]

There should be a unisex toilet room for trans and non-binary kids - a single-person room with a sink and lock. As trans kids are a tiny minority, there shouldn’t need to be many of these little bathrooms. Everyone else can have single-sex facilities. In fact I actually prefer self-contained loos to open plan loos with loads of cubicles and shared sinks. For safety’s sake, each little unisex bathroom should be in a well-monitored area of the school so people can’t go in there to take drugs / smoke / have sex / assault classmates etc.

[Violinist64]

How many of us as adult women want to share public toilets with men? Fortunately, we rarely have to. Why, then, are 11-16 year old girls, who are going through puberty and are far more vulnerable than we are, expected to do so? This incident is a more extreme version of the harassment that many other girls must experience because of this insane policy of mixed sex toilets.

[SoonToBeQueenCamilla]

@KalimbaMoon

There should be a unisex toilet room for trans and non-binary kids - a single-person room with a sink and lock. As trans kids are a tiny minority, there shouldn’t need to be many of these little bathrooms. Everyone else can have single-sex facilities. In fact I actually prefer self-contained loos to open plan loos with loads of cubicles and shared sinks. For safety’s sake, each little unisex bathroom should be in a well-monitored area of the school so people can’t go in there to take drugs / smoke / have sex / assault classmates etc.

So how would that monitoring work then ? Presumably it would require a member of staff to stand outside these cubicles full time to monitor them. Who is going to pay for that ?

And how would they stop being taking drugs or smoking while they were inside ?

As far as I can see, people say stuff like this with not a clue how it could be done.

[Chilloutsnow]

Can’t say I was surprised to read this. Poor girl. Hope she is now okay. Looks nasty. Local school to me, sounds like their standards have slipped rapidly.

[Biscuitmonster2318]

Is this not a parenting problem too?

should another young person have been taught, primarily, by parents how to conduct themselves.

I absolutely know if this was my child who had behaved in such a disrespectful manner I would not be blaming the introduction of these toilets

I would be having a very stern conversation with my child about the behaviour they chose to express and the impact it had.

the world can have many views, in many situations, but I expect my children to behave in a way that they expect to be treated

in this situation I can imagine the uproar if the offence had been committed against the young people who committed the offence in the first place

alongside statements from the original perpetrators parents saying how disgusted they are it could happen
it could be a mixed toilet with separate cubicles; a mixed changing room or dormitory, if it is set up where once a curtain, door or another boundary that stipulates nobody can enter past this point without permission. Then it should not happen.

To use the statement’it only started when these toilets were set up’
is in my view equivalent to the statement ‘look at how she was dressed or acted-those actions we’re asking for it’ and totally taking the blame from the people who did it

too many excuses from parents for their children’s terrible behavior and using some sort of action to justify why their child is innocent

[Biscuitmonster2318]

Standards slipped

mor terrible behaviour???

should the actions have been allowed?

or should they have been made to understand their actions were wrong and have consequences

if they were in a bar where most are for any one to use- that behaviour would not have been tolerated and a police record would have happened

at what point does society teach youngsters that certain behaviour is not acceptable

if that was my child who had carried out that behavior i would hang my head in shame that I had not instilled the correct values in them.
i would not be putting that on anyone else or a situation that once they have left that situation will earn them a police record.
the parents of the students who carried this out if the victim had been their daughter what would the response be then

[Biscuitmonster2318]

I know of schools who run this situation and have done since 2009 and they are run by male and female staff at the same time

it’s one entrance, two sides and huge multi wash stands and the attendants circulate constantly

they run those rooms like my old matron and are the safest place to be if you are bullied

everything is exactly like normal bathrooms

there are lots of individual cubicles that are locked and private. Just as all women’s cubicles are
anyone can use them and I know my son will use the ones in that section in his school purely because it’s secure and safe and he has Crohn’s disease
nog to be awful to anyone else
but in the other side it has multiple troughs and separate cubicles
my son would not use a cubicle in the other section
he also won’t use a cubicle in any male toilets in any place as he says it’s dirty, disgusting and very rarely secure.
so he comes into the other bathrooms away from school with me
I prefer his medical needs and feeling comfortable than any people saying it’s wrong

[Biscuitmonster2318]

No they shouldn’t

so what are the parents of the other people doing to ensure they behave correctly

you can go back to the old arguments about women and clothing and how the women have to adjust behavior because men can’t

others should be taught right from wrong

[Biscuitmonster2318]

Why should the school have to change their policy because male students are intimidating and violent towards female pupils in a bathroom

where is the outrage at these badly behaved children
why are parents not outraged


yet again always back to women at fault

[discobrain]

@gogohmm

The fact a boy committed this offence is not due to the toilets, it's due to his bad behaviour - he could have gone into a girl's toilet and done the same thing, he obviously doesn't mind breaking rules!

The issue of privacy is valid but as someone who was kicked in a girls toilet (by a girl) I am not sure crime is reduced by same sex, in fact bullying is worse. Best arrangement is full cubicles sell contained straight onto the corridor

100% this.

[Emotionalstorm]

I also really hate it when restaurants have these toilets that take up a whole room and they allow men and women to use them. I think men are much messier so I end up having to use a dirty toilet.

[Chilloutsnow]

Of course parents have a responsibility. It’s their fault too for creating such a beast, however the school didn’t safeguard appropriately here and as someone who is local to this school, it’s not at all surprising judging from new staff appointments.