Schoolgirl kicked in head by boy in unisex toilets- is the idea of unisex unworkable?

[Xoxoxoxoxoxox]

A boy in a school toilets in Coventry has kicked in a door in in an attempt to photograph a 13 yr old girl and she has received head injuries.
When unisex toilets were introduced we were told they would be closely monitored but that is clearly ineffective and they are unsafe for girls.
Do you think they should be abolished?

Yabu Allow them
Yanbu Abolish them.

www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-schoolgirl-taken-hospital-after-26418069

[RichardBarrister]

The fact a boy committed this offence is not due to the toilets, it's due to his bad behaviour - he could have gone into a girl's toilet and done the same thing, he obviously doesn't mind breaking rules!

A lot of people say that, or variations of that. The fact is that boys going into the girls toilets can be called out and reported by the girls and expect a punishment.

A boy going into mixed sex toilet cubicles (let’s face it, that’s what most are in schools these days, not unisex in a proper room with handwash basin, but mixed sex cubicles with absolutely no sound privacy) has every right to be there so it is far harder to deal with him behaving badly.

A lot of boys use ‘low level’ bullying tactics to upset the girls. Imagine being in a flimsy cubicle with a boys voice on the other side saying ‘I can see you…’ you have no way of knowing if he can or not but just the threat is distressing enough.

I am disgusted by this push in schools across the country, often with no consultation (because they know everyone will object) to install mixed sex toilets. Have they never met teenagers??

Do they not understand the difficulties of existing while being female and especially while going through puberty? Why have they knowingly made these decisions that make the school day worse for girls? Are 200 rapes per year in schools not enough??

Head teachers complain about attendance and then make it far more difficult than it has to be for girls to attend school while on their period. Our school has no female only only toilets in the main building, meaning there is nowhere to put the free sanitary products for them so they have to go and find a member if staff if they have a period emergency. It’s utterly grim.

I am furious with schools and the government for doing this to our girls.

[Postapocalypticcowgirl]

This really isn't normal behaviour, and I do think the unisex toilets is a bit of a red herring. I work in a school which has one set of unisex toilets, the rest single sexed, and it honestly works fine. I think the key is giving students options so they can chose what they feel comfortable with.

The issue is the boy feeling entitled to take photos of the girl. If he wasn't doing it in the toilets, he would be upskirting on the bus, or cornering girls in a less visible part of the playground, or something else.

Let's be realistic, you don't go from being someone who's interacting with girls normally to kicking down a toilet door just because the toilets are now unisex- there's more to it than that.

Sexual harassment and assault is becoming a lot more common in schools, and removing unisex toilets definitely won't solve the problems. Schools really need to take a zero tolerance approach. Far to many approaches seem to focus on rescuing the boys, rather than keeping the girls safe. This won't be a first offence, and he probably should have been excluded from the school by now.

The police also tend to be very unwilling to get involved with sexual assault that's happened inside a school- even if it's fairly obvious a crime has been committed. Even when there's good CCTV evidence, or another student has filmed what is going on, they're often just not interested and want the school to deal with it. Or they'll "have a word" with the boy, but actually take no action.

Personally, I think we need to be dealing with the growing issue of male violence in schools, not focusing on toilets.

[Ooompaloopa]

@Wakemeuuuup

This story is absolutely horrendous, that poor girl. I suspect there a big behaviour problems at that school.

My kids' school changed one set of toilets to unisex and kept the rest as separate girls and boys.

There are now only a couple of unisex toilets as the girls complained that the boys were leaving the toilets in a bad way. The school listened and agreed with them. There was no mention of bad behaviour from either sex though

I was at a very fancy recently opened event space in central London last week to see an exhibition.

Mixed toilets - absolutely filthy - shit on the seats, piss on the floor of cubicles - this mess would I assume be left by ‘civilised’ mature men.

Totally turned my stomach.

I can’t imagine how it would be for a young girl to have to tolerate that daily from no doubt worse teenage boys.

[RichardBarrister]

@GordonShakespearedoesChristmas

When I was at school girls were kicked in the head in the toilets by girls.
My daughter was knocked unconscious on the playground in secondary school.
Mixed toilets are not the problem her.

Girls can very occasionally be violent towards other girls so let’s bring boys into the equation and increase the likelihood of violence?

That doesn’t make any sense.

Our head teacher claimed that because it is possible (in rare circumstances) for a girl to sexually assault another girl, there is no point separating male and female to try and prevent sexual assault by a male. Can anyone see the logic fail there?

[Postapocalypticcowgirl]

A lot of people say that, or variations of that. The fact is that boys going into the girls toilets can be called out and reported by the girls and expect a punishment.

In a lot of cases, there wouldn't be a serious punishment for this though- that's part of the problem.

Our school has no female only only toilets in the main building

To be clear, I do think this isn't ideal- there should be a choice available.

But the focus on toilets only is missing the point.

When it's got to the stage of kicking down a cubicle door, if it wasn't in the toilets, it would be somewhere else.

[LuvSmallDogs]

Everyone saying "it's not the unisex loos that's the problem, girls beat each other in single sex toilets" etc...

Are you missing that the motivation for booting in the doors is to photograph girls with their knickers down, in a vulnerable position?!

This is sexual predator territory, if my son did this I would be horrified and worry I was raising a future wife beating rapist!

This unisex toilet policy is helping misogynistic predators to corner girls in a state of undress - if someone saw this little psycho going into the girl's toilets, alarm bells would immediately ring, upping the chances of him being stopped.

[SherryPalmer]

Personally, I think we need to be dealing with the growing issue of male violence in schools, not focusing on toilets.

How about, whilst we fix the difficult problem of male violence, we ensure girls can use the toilet safely. Once male violence is solved, then let’s talk about unisex toilets.

[Postapocalypticcowgirl]

But sexual assaults, up skirting, hidden cameras in toilets all happen in schools where there are no unisex toilets.

And there are schools with unisex toilets where this doesn't happen.

I honestly do believe the focus on toilets is a side issue.

[Postapocalypticcowgirl]

@SherryPalmer

Personally, I think we need to be dealing with the growing issue of male violence in schools, not focusing on toilets.

How about, whilst we fix the difficult problem of male violence, we ensure girls can use the toilet safely. Once male violence is solved, then let’s talk about unisex toilets.

But if male violence is an issue in a school, girls often can't use the toilets safely, even if they are single sex.

There's not a magical forcefield at the entrance to a female toilet that keeps the boys out.

[Helleofabore]

@Postapocalypticcowgirl

This really isn't normal behaviour, and I do think the unisex toilets is a bit of a red herring. I work in a school which has one set of unisex toilets, the rest single sexed, and it honestly works fine. I think the key is giving students options so they can chose what they feel comfortable with.

The issue is the boy feeling entitled to take photos of the girl. If he wasn't doing it in the toilets, he would be upskirting on the bus, or cornering girls in a less visible part of the playground, or something else.

Let's be realistic, you don't go from being someone who's interacting with girls normally to kicking down a toilet door just because the toilets are now unisex- there's more to it than that.

Sexual harassment and assault is becoming a lot more common in schools, and removing unisex toilets definitely won't solve the problems. Schools really need to take a zero tolerance approach. Far to many approaches seem to focus on rescuing the boys, rather than keeping the girls safe. This won't be a first offence, and he probably should have been excluded from the school by now.

The police also tend to be very unwilling to get involved with sexual assault that's happened inside a school- even if it's fairly obvious a crime has been committed. Even when there's good CCTV evidence, or another student has filmed what is going on, they're often just not interested and want the school to deal with it. Or they'll "have a word" with the boy, but actually take no action.

Personally, I think we need to be dealing with the growing issue of male violence in schools, not focusing on toilets.

"I work in a school which has one set of unisex toilets, the rest single sexed, and it honestly works fine."

Yes. I imagine it would.

But what about those where the school has taken away all single sexed provisions?


"Sexual harassment and assault is becoming a lot more common in schools, and removing unisex toilets definitely won't solve the problems."

I don't believe that anyone would think that removing 'unisex toilets' would 'solve the problems'.

The question is, if a school has removed all single sex toilets, aren't they simply adding to the issues currently faced by girls in schools? Why would any school want to do that. And again, I mean, removing single sex toilets or allowing any male into a toilet if they have declared they are trans.

"The police also tend to be very unwilling to get involved with sexual assault that's happened inside a school- even if it's fairly obvious a crime has been committed. Even when there's good CCTV evidence, or another student has filmed what is going on, they're often just not interested and want the school to deal with it. Or they'll "have a word" with the boy, but actually take no action."

This above is very concerning. it really is.

[Helleofabore]

@Postapocalypticcowgirl

But if male violence is an issue in a school, girls often can't use the toilets safely, even if they are single sex.

There's not a magical forcefield at the entrance to a female toilet that keeps the boys out.

Are you saying that boys entering girls toilets are not reported and disciplined?

[wincarwoo]

@Postapocalypticcowgirl this is the disingenuous argument used when women demand single sex spaces. A lot of the time by men.

[InPraiseOfBacchus]

Nah, I got kicked plenty of times by girls in girls' toilets when I was growing up. Toilets don't cause gendered violence.

[AlisonDonut]

Schools really need to take a zero tolerance approach

A 'zero tolerance' approach depends on action after someone or some people have been hurt. Whereas assessing the risk and putting mitigations in place PRIOR in order to prevent harm is a proactive approach and less people get hurt.

Why have schools decided to ditch so many easily resolved mitigations just to tick an inclusive box? It really does make you wonder what the motivations are behind all this.

[CampervanKween]

Absolutely ridiculous and continues the erosion of hard won female rights. Awful to see idiotic virtue signallers waving away the rights of girls and women in the presence that the sexes are not different.

[IAmMeThisIsI]

Suprise suprise. It's not like single sex toilets were created to avoid these incidents or as a safe space for women. Not at all. And anyone arguing against this is stunning and brave.

[Xant]

@gogohmm

The fact a boy committed this offence is not due to the toilets, it's due to his bad behaviour - he could have gone into a girl's toilet and done the same thing, he obviously doesn't mind breaking rules!

The issue of privacy is valid but as someone who was kicked in a girls toilet (by a girl) I am not sure crime is reduced by same sex, in fact bullying is worse. Best arrangement is full cubicles sell contained straight onto the corridor

@gogohmm that is such a lazy and naive argument. 🥱

If you took a load of naked women and left them over night outside pubs in various cities, most or all of them would be raped and beaten by men. The issue would be the rapists’ bad behaviour, according to your logic. But there would still have been a lot more rapes than if you’d dropped off those women somewhere men wouldn’t notice them.

The point is, when you place females, particularly young females, in physically vulnerable situations, they’ll get attacked by males. So society needs to create situations where females are physically safe. That’s why female toilets and changing rooms were created, that’s why prisons all over the world are single sex, that is the thinking behind single sex schools.

Go read some history and have a think about how men treat women, over and over again.

[Postapocalypticcowgirl]

@Helleofabore

"I work in a school which has one set of unisex toilets, the rest single sexed, and it honestly works fine."

Yes. I imagine it would.

But what about those where the school has taken away all single sexed provisions?


"Sexual harassment and assault is becoming a lot more common in schools, and removing unisex toilets definitely won't solve the problems."

I don't believe that anyone would think that removing 'unisex toilets' would 'solve the problems'.

The question is, if a school has removed all single sex toilets, aren't they simply adding to the issues currently faced by girls in schools? Why would any school want to do that. And again, I mean, removing single sex toilets or allowing any male into a toilet if they have declared they are trans.

"The police also tend to be very unwilling to get involved with sexual assault that's happened inside a school- even if it's fairly obvious a crime has been committed. Even when there's good CCTV evidence, or another student has filmed what is going on, they're often just not interested and want the school to deal with it. Or they'll "have a word" with the boy, but actually take no action."

This above is very concerning. it really is.

To be clear, I've said on this thread, I think there should be choice for students. I don't think schools should remove all single sex provision, and students should be consulted on what they would prefer. If the majority want single sex, then the majority of provision should be single sex, etc. Suitable provision does have to be legally provided for trans students, though.

Do you honestly believe a boy who is kicking a toilet door in and injuring a girl would not be of any risk to girls if there were no mixed sex toilets in school?

He hasn't started here- the fact will be that his behaviour will have been escalating for a while- probably both in the toilets and elsewhere, and he hasn't been given a severe enough sanction. Therefore, his behaviour has been allowed to reach this point. Hopefully, he will now be excluded.

And yes, genuinely, the police often aren't interested- regardless of what kind of toilets you have. Even when the school is asking them to get involved because they believe a crime has been committed.

The will also often take months to deal with sexual offences reported outside of school- which leaves schools in a very difficult position.

[KalimbaMoon]

If a thief REALLY wants to steal your car, he'll smash his way in regardless. But you still lock the door, right? And you've got a car alarm? You don't make it easy for the thief. This school has made it really easy for sexually aggressive boys to invade girls' privacy and act like absolute animals when the girls are at their most vulnerable. Yes, girls can be bullies too, and any toilet can be a dangerous place when bullies are on the prowl. But this is about the behaviour of BOYS who were needlessly put in the same space as vulnerable girls.

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

Of course the predatory and violent behaviour of young males is also an issue that needs to be dealt with.

[RichardBarrister]

Let's be realistic, you don't go from being someone who's interacting with girls normally to kicking down a toilet door just because the toilets are now unisex- there's more to it than that.

I think the school effectively telling girls they have no right to privacy from boys when using the toilet has quite a lot to do with that behaviour as a matter of fact.

It encourages a sense of male entitlement and lack of respect for girls privacy. Attempting to taking photos is just the next stage.

Sexual harassment and assault is becoming a lot more common in schools, and removing unisex toilets definitely won't solve the problems. Schools really need to take a zero tolerance approach. Far to many approaches seem to focus on rescuing the boys, rather than keeping the girls safe

Two things are happening in schools at the moment. There is a huge push to remove single sex toilets and there is a increase in sexual assault and harassment. Is there a chance the two things are linked or is it just a massive coincidence? We definitely cannot say they are not.

It is interesting that, having started this huge social experiment in making a fundamental change to the provision of facilities in schools which by law should be single sex (of proper unisex), schools don’t seem keen in gathering any data on the effect it has on students.

How many girls now self exclude from the toilets and dehydrate all day?

How many girls with religious beliefs are constantly getting detentions because they have to queue to use the very limited remaining female only toilets?
How many girls have been mortified when the lock on their cubicle has failed and a boy has walked in on them? It’s bad enough if it was a girl but worse if it is a boy in this pornified world.

Schools don’t have the answers - do they care so little about the welfare of girls? If it was so good for everyone why would they not want to prove it?

[wincarwoo]

@CampervanKween

Absolutely ridiculous and continues the erosion of hard won female rights. Awful to see idiotic virtue signallers waving away the rights of girls and women in the presence that the sexes are not different.

Totally agree. You have to wonder why.

[ChestnutGrove]

@GordonShakespearedoesChristmas

When I was at school girls were kicked in the head in the toilets by girls.
My daughter was knocked unconscious on the playground in secondary school.
Mixed toilets are not the problem her.

In the article the parents are saying the problem started after unisex toilets were introduced and that boys take photos and kick doors down which has broken the locks. So yes introducing unisex toilets is a problem here

[Postapocalypticcowgirl]

@Helleofabore

Are you saying that boys entering girls toilets are not reported and disciplined?

I'm saying in some schools they would not be "disciplined" or the sanction they would be given wouldn't be meaningful. In most schools, the sanction would likely be a detention, or a "restorative conversation"- which isn't a deterrent to some students.

They also sometimes can get away without being seen. I'm aware of a school where someone was able to put spy cameras in female staff, and then student toilets. Either he wasn't seen (and so wasn't reported) or was reported and nothing was done.

He was only caught when it escalated to him trying to "upskirt" someone. I believe he was found to have 1000s of images on his computers.

I think people genuinely have no idea what the situation is like in some schools, and that's why they are focusing on toilets.

[Passerillage]

Mixed sex toilets are a bit of a red herring here. The problem is that the school is violent and unsafe, not "wokeness got mad" or whatever spin will be put on it. The school needs to be in special measures with an interim head to resolve the ongoing violence and danger to girls (and probably other boys).

(And I say that as someone who is against mix sex toilets, especially in schools.)