Page 33 | To have refused to get out of my car for the police in the middle of the night?

AngeloMysterioso · 2023-03-02T17:05:41+00:00

Was driving home from work at just after 2 a.m last night when I was pulled over by a pair of male coppers in a squad car after I swerved in the road to avoid a pothole. I stopped, lowered my window a crack and then turned the engine off and made sure all the doors were locked. They both got out of the car and came over, asked about where I was going, where I’d been etc etc and then asked about the swerve- I explained about the pothole, and that I didn’t consider the move to have been dangerous as there were no other vehicles or anywhere near me (they had been some distance in front of me at the time and on the other side of the road but there was absolutely no chance of a collision) and no pedestrians anywhere around. Then they asked if I would get out of the car and take a breathalyser test. I refused- I said I’d happily drive to the police station (maybe a mile- mile and a half away) and take a breathalyser there, but that I didn’t feel safe getting out of my car and being alone with two massive blokes in the middle of the night with no other people around, and them being in a uniform didn’t change that for me. They asked a few more questions about my work, if they needed to would anyone be able to verify that I’d been working, gave me a lecture about driving safely and in the end let me go home with no further action taken - but I’ve just had a phonecall from another police officer basically telling me off for not just doing as I was told. Was I BU?

Daysoffarethebest · 04/03/2023 14:27

No I’m not a man, and if you read what I actually wrote, I was not talking about the OP, rather the post saying it was highly highly dangerous to get out in that scenario.
As I’ve said, I can understand some fear but to say it was highly highly dangerous is totally over the top, and I do wonder what kind of words would be used for a scenario which is in real life, (not MN world) really dangerous.

Justforthissnippet · 04/03/2023 14:34

My point about the machete- as I suspect you know very well - is that policing does not work if some groups are permitted to ignore the police’s instructions

The point about the machete is so different as to be meaningless.

I don’t think anyone has said that lone woman in general should be permitted to ignore all police instructions (assuming those instructions are within the law).

In this particular case, it seems the police did satisfy themselves there was no need for OP to get out of the car after all, and no reasonable grounds to ask for the test.

But given the problem the police as an institution have caused themselves over a number of years , they do need to work out a way to manage this kind of scenario that allows them to do their jobs and allows women to feel safe. Over to them.

In a more general sense, I maintain that it is important that police are challenged when they are not acting within their correct powers, so cannot subscribe to absolutely always following police instruction without question.

Luredbyapomegranate · 04/03/2023 14:38

No. You offered to go to the station. That’s fine. If they are worried you are pissed, they can tell you to drive slowly and drive behind you - it’s 2am so quiet.

If you call you got is bugging you, put in a complaint.

I am the most relaxed person about personal safety, but the police have lost a lot of trust.

Survey99 · 04/03/2023 15:08

Luredbyapomegranate · 04/03/2023 14:38

No. You offered to go to the station. That’s fine. If they are worried you are pissed, they can tell you to drive slowly and drive behind you - it’s 2am so quiet.

If you call you got is bugging you, put in a complaint.

I am the most relaxed person about personal safety, but the police have lost a lot of trust.

If they are worried you are pissed, they can tell you to drive slowly and drive behind you - it’s 2am so quiet.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I can only assume that is a joke!

HelpINeedSomeAdvicePlease · 04/03/2023 16:55

Luredbyapomegranate · 04/03/2023 14:38

No. You offered to go to the station. That’s fine. If they are worried you are pissed, they can tell you to drive slowly and drive behind you - it’s 2am so quiet.

If you call you got is bugging you, put in a complaint.

I am the most relaxed person about personal safety, but the police have lost a lot of trust.

Jesus.

So they should still let you drive if you're pissed?

If you're drunk you can't make decisions about driving carefully and slowly.

Let's hope you're not in a job where you have to safeguard others!

HelpINeedSomeAdvicePlease · 04/03/2023 16:56

bellabasset · 04/03/2023 14:16

I thought that lone women can phone the police if they're stopped alone by a male officer(s) YANBU but it's a sad state of affairs when you're unable to trust the police.

This must be how people of colour have felt for years!

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2023 18:38

Luredbyapomegranate · 04/03/2023 14:38

No. You offered to go to the station. That’s fine. If they are worried you are pissed, they can tell you to drive slowly and drive behind you - it’s 2am so quiet.

If you call you got is bugging you, put in a complaint.

I am the most relaxed person about personal safety, but the police have lost a lot of trust.

Are you on glue ???? In what world do you think the police are going to allow someone they have stopped on suspicion of drink driving, to drive anywhere ? The OP offered to drive to the nearest police station. In the real world, if they have still suspected her of drink driving she would have been arrested and driven to the station, thereby potentially putting her at more risk than she would have been if she had simply complied.

ArabellaScott · 04/03/2023 18:49

Daysoffarethebest · 04/03/2023 10:04

So predictable.
Nobody is saying women have hysteria.
I said in some of these posts and quoted exactly what was meant, which I stand by.
I totally understand the fear but it should be proportionate, after all everybody knows you shouldn’t hold prejudice against every individual in a certain group based on the actions of some of that group, but that concept has been helpfully forgotten here.

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'With the level of hysteria in some of these posts, I’m surprised anybody leaves the house for fear some kind of catastrophe could happen.'

'Nobody is saying women have hysteria'.

ArabellaScott · 04/03/2023 18:53

Novatherova · 03/03/2023 21:18

Aw thank you.

Sorry if I seem an idiot in my defence of the police. It's hard when your family members are in it and friends.

However today has reminded me that what you see at face value isn't always what you end up with.

It's a sad world we live in when women can't even trust the police now.

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You don't seem an idiot, it's natural to defend our loved ones. I have friends in the police, too, so criticism is not aimed at individuals.

But yes, it is a sad world; it's shit, but predators and abusers will always be attracted to positions that offer opportuinties to access victims and abuse their power. There needs to be more done to improve both the police and women's trust. It really doesn't benefit anyone to have women this anxious/scared.

VladmirsPoutine · 04/03/2023 18:58

There needs to be more done to improve both the police and women's trust. It really doesn't benefit anyone to have women this anxious/scared.

There will be marked change, it's slowly beginning to emerge. If this thread is anything to go by the police are really going to have to shape up. There are many women on this thread claiming that they wouldn't have left their car at all and I believe that they'd have the resolution to have stayed put come hell or high water.

Daysoffarethebest · 04/03/2023 19:02

Some.
You implied all.
I am aware enough to know that generic “women” is different to the over the top responses shown by some posts on here.

WedonttalkaboutMaureen · 04/03/2023 22:59

AdventFridgeOfShame · 03/03/2023 11:16

@OMG12 I think you are the only person on the thread mentioning defunding the police. Other people would like the police to recognise that they do have problems amongst their ranks and to sort it out. As the Met are discovering, this is a messy process and will make them look worse in the short term but will ultimately improve confidence in the force. Acknowledging and sorting a problem is going to cost money.

Many other occupations require far more vetting. Childcare, prison service, uniformed forces, any other emergency response, education, care work, social services, health care workers.... The police should have one of the best recruitment systems, at the moment it appears that accountancy firms are more thorough.

The general theme on this thread from anyone with any involvement with the police has been very dismissive, berating, misogynistic and frankly bullying at times. Just what the police have been accused of. The culture and accountability needs to change.

Yes to all of this

WedonttalkaboutMaureen · 04/03/2023 23:03

SpyouttheLand · 03/03/2023 12:16

The general theme on this thread from anyone with any involvement with the police has been very dismissive, berating, misogynistic and frankly bullying at times. Just what the police have been accused of. The culture and accountability needs to change

Yes, wouldn't it have been lovely to hear from someone "DH says colleagues are appalled at what's gone on, people are staring to pull colleagues up on their misogynistic language" or "there been loads of extra training sessions aimed at reversing these attitudes"

Instead all we've had is attacks, minimisation and dismissal.

Yes, very little evidence of anyone associated with the police giving the genuine concerns expressed here any respect at all

WedonttalkaboutMaureen · 04/03/2023 23:21

I suspect that those who have had loved ones killed or injured by drunk/drug drivers would have a very different opinion.

Well you're wrong @Rosscameasdoody I've lost a relative to a drunk driver - and I still say the OP was right to put her safety first. Yes I know she can't drive onwards, but it appears possible to do a breathalyser through the window.

And saying "most officers are honest" uh huh? And what if the one/two who stop us at night on an unlit country road are some of the ones who are not? How do we tell? We can't. So we have to put our safety first. And the police need to recognise and address that as a priority. Saying we are being "ridiculous" doesn't help this situation at all and is evidence of the dismissive attitude that part of the problem.

WedonttalkaboutMaureen · 04/03/2023 23:36

OMG is the ONLY one to keep bringing up defunding and is frankly starting to sound a bit unhinged. And apparently they don't work for the police even

The police, like all services after years of Tory rule, need more funding. But that comes alongside the need to review all allegations against them for misconduct AND to work to repair the damage to trust. And you don't have to be a "Marxist" to think this.

Better check under your bed for reds tonight OMG!

ancientgran · 04/03/2023 23:49

WedonttalkaboutMaureen · 04/03/2023 23:03

Yes, very little evidence of anyone associated with the police giving the genuine concerns expressed here any respect at all

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Two police officers I worked with went to prison. They weren't nice people and when I heard about it I didn't shed a tear for them.

I wasn't a police officer, civilian admin support. Apart from those two I only ever had one problem, trapped in the stationery cupboard with a very inappropriate officer who later apologised.

Hope that helps.

Rosscameasdoody · 05/03/2023 08:20

WedonttalkaboutMaureen · 04/03/2023 23:21

I suspect that those who have had loved ones killed or injured by drunk/drug drivers would have a very different opinion.

Well you're wrong @Rosscameasdoody I've lost a relative to a drunk driver - and I still say the OP was right to put her safety first. Yes I know she can't drive onwards, but it appears possible to do a breathalyser through the window.

And saying "most officers are honest" uh huh? And what if the one/two who stop us at night on an unlit country road are some of the ones who are not? How do we tell? We can't. So we have to put our safety first. And the police need to recognise and address that as a priority. Saying we are being "ridiculous" doesn't help this situation at all and is evidence of the dismissive attitude that part of the problem.

I’m so sorry for your loss, but that quote was part of the discussion around the OP offering to drive to the nearest station. As someone who has lost a loved one to drunk driving, would you really want that to be happening as the norm, because women refuse to comply with a request to leave the car ?

And in response to your comment on honesty, I can only reiterate that if your own safety is compromised late at night giving you cause to call the police for help, then you would have to trust that they would respond professionally. You can’t pick and choose. In my view, if you don’t trust the police to treat you professionally in the circumstances the OP outlines, then you are utterly hypocritical if you pick up the phone and call them for assistance if, for example, you are alone at home and suspect there is an intruder. The path we are on is a dangerous one and there has to be a better way than the civil disobedience a lot of people are advocating here. I’m sure someone will be along shortly to tell me why I’m wrong.

Autumnalblooms · 05/03/2023 10:40

I picked up my husband when we back in our twenties when he had been out with friends one night, we live rurally so not busy roads at 1am in the morning .I noticed this car was following me , when i turned it turned it was getting unnerving and i do not scare easily .I pulled into the carpark of where i was picking him up and it turned in too,police car ,young policeman .He said i wanted to check who was driving as your car is going the opposite way to where you live , so he had done a check on my car .I was furious and tore him off a shred , told him how he had scared me , he ended up apologising and leaving .I was so cross with him i said you must realised i was a lone female because the car was in my name but you still chose to follow me .

DashboardConfessional · 05/03/2023 10:51

Autumnalblooms · 05/03/2023 10:40

I picked up my husband when we back in our twenties when he had been out with friends one night, we live rurally so not busy roads at 1am in the morning .I noticed this car was following me , when i turned it turned it was getting unnerving and i do not scare easily .I pulled into the carpark of where i was picking him up and it turned in too,police car ,young policeman .He said i wanted to check who was driving as your car is going the opposite way to where you live , so he had done a check on my car .I was furious and tore him off a shred , told him how he had scared me , he ended up apologising and leaving .I was so cross with him i said you must realised i was a lone female because the car was in my name but you still chose to follow me .

What on earth? This sounds like absolute bollocks from him. All cars leave their place of ownership, that's the point. Does it matter who's driving? It could have been you going to A&E, night shift, the airport...

Justforthissnippet · 05/03/2023 10:51

I’m sure someone will be along shortly to tell me why I’m wrong

I think they have already.

sealon82 · 05/03/2023 11:09

I don't think it's hypocritical at all. I think people/women would prefer to live in a world that when you get pulled over by the police in the middle of nowhere you're brain doesn't have to ask the question 'Is this safe or is this policeman out to cause harm?
Unfortunately that is not how things stand.
People are currently worried/scared of the police at the moment, they have good reason to be. For everyone's sake that needs to change and it's for the police not the public to change that perception.
Call out your racist/misogynist/homophobic colleagues. If you're working in the police and you're aware of a colleague who's nicknamed the rapist than speak out.Better yet make it a sackable/criminal offence to not speak out. Until then stop with the victim blaming. In the meantime if I have to dial 999 for assistance let's just hope that whoever turns up is a decent law abiding policeman, I shouldn't have to ask myself that question.

ChunkaMunkaBoomBoom · 06/03/2023 09:14

'it's a sad state of affairs when you're unable to trust the police'

There are whole swathes of people who haven't been able to trust the police, from people of colour to Catholics in northern ireland to vulnerable women like sex workers.

It feels like the police have managed to finally piss of the 'ordinary' people too now...

lieselotte · 06/03/2023 17:01

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 03/03/2023 11:55

It was 2 in the morning. Do you think that, perhaps, it might have been dark?

Do you think drunk drivers normally slow-crawl past the police, waking a bottle of voddie at them?

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If I am following a car that suddenly swerves, I will do one of two things:

(a) see the pothole and also swerve or

(b) not see it and hit it.

Either way, I will know there was a pothole. The time of day is irrelevant. The police would know there was a pothole.

And if they drive around the area frequently they'd know about it in any event. I know where a lot are in my area!

lieselotte · 06/03/2023 17:02

What on earth? This sounds like absolute bollocks from him. All cars leave their place of ownership, that's the point. Does it matter who's driving? It could have been you going to A&E, night shift, the airport.

Totally agree, what nonsense from that police officer!

lieselotte · 06/03/2023 17:04

I’m so sorry for your loss, but that quote was part of the discussion around the OP offering to drive to the nearest station. As someone who has lost a loved one to drunk driving, would you really want that to be happening as the norm, because women refuse to comply with a request to leave the car

The point is this. The OP saw a pothole and swerved, which the police car should have also seen and swerved, or known about due to local knowledge, or hit because they didn't see it. In any of those scenarios, they would know that there was indeed a pothole.

The OP was not driving erratically all over the road.

Therefore, there was no reason to suspect her of drunk driving, and every reason to accept her explanation.