To have refused to get out of my car for the police in the middle of the night?

[AngeloMysterioso]

Was driving home from work at just after 2 a.m last night when I was pulled over by a pair of male coppers in a squad car after I swerved in the road to avoid a pothole.

I stopped, lowered my window a crack and then turned the engine off and made sure all the doors were locked. They both got out of the car and came over, asked about where I was going, where I’d been etc etc and then asked about the swerve- I explained about the pothole, and that I didn’t consider the move to have been dangerous as there were no other vehicles or anywhere near me (they had been some distance in front of me at the time and on the other side of the road but there was absolutely no chance of a collision) and no pedestrians anywhere around.
Then they asked if I would get out of the car and take a breathalyser test. I refused- I said I’d happily drive to the police station (maybe a mile- mile and a half away) and take a breathalyser there, but that I didn’t feel safe getting out of my car and being alone with two massive blokes in the middle of the night with no other people around, and them being in a uniform didn’t change that for me.

They asked a few more questions about my work, if they needed to would anyone be able to verify that I’d been working, gave me a lecture about driving safely and in the end let me go home with no further action taken - but I’ve just had a phonecall from another police officer basically telling me off for not just doing as I was told.

Was I BU?

So do I - but not for the same reasons, I imagine.

With the level of hysteria in some of these posts, I’m surprised anybody leaves the house for fear some kind of catastrophe could happen.
“Highly highly dangerous”to get out of a car when stopped by two police officers who gave no creepy vibes and were admittedly polite-get a grip man!

She was on the brink of refusing to leave the car for a breathalyser when they decided no further action. Had they not been able to verify from talking to her that she was sober, they would have insisted on the breathalyser and had she continued to refuse, she would have been arrested - her own actions would have put her in a more risky situation than if she had complied. Refusing a breath test carries a potential prison sentence

I have reported the comment as I wasn’t sure either.

Ah women have 'hysteria' for being wary of the police. Of course.

So predictable.
Nobody is saying women have hysteria.
I said in some of these posts and quoted exactly what was meant, which I stand by.
I totally understand the fear but it should be proportionate, after all everybody knows you shouldn’t hold prejudice against every individual in a certain group based on the actions of some of that group, but that concept has been helpfully forgotten here.

Whether you ask them or they ask you, the trust issue is the same. They will be alone with you in the early hours when they respond. How is that any different. And I’m not holding up US police as any example, except for similar issues leading to defunding and chaos. Which is where we’re headed if we all start refusing to comply.

If they weren’t in a situation which allowed the breath test to be administered inside the car then, yes, she was refusing.

And risk an accident if she is drunk ?

‘She was on the brink of refusing to leave the car for a breathalyser when they decided no further action. Had they not been able to verify from talking to her that she was sober, they would have insisted on the breathalyser and had she continued to refuse, she would have been arrested - her own actions would have put her in a more risky situation than if she had complied. Refusing a breath test carries a potential prison sentence’

sorry, but that’s balls .

1. she can take the test while sitting in her car
2. they would have taken her to the station where she would have taken the test.

The police need our consent to police us and abusing their powers by arresting her for not getting out of a car to do the test then refusing to let her do one at the station is a clear abuse of those powers.

The police don’t need anymore headlines about women being scared of them, and if they’d have arrested me, then refused to let me rest at the station, I would have fought any charges all the way to the highest court AND made a song and dance about it to the media.
are women right to be wary of being alone with police officers at night in remote areas? Yes, they are - and not even the most right wing of judges or courts would disagree that she probably did feel unsafe.

How much more cost to the tax payer than a few chap breathalysers is the police and court time if they are over the limit and caught. Not to mention the heartbreak caused to victims of drunk drivers and their families ? And why are you assuming he stole them ? Seems like good PR for the police to try and keep alcohol related death off the road by any means possible.

Maybe I’m old fashioned but I still think of Police as someone who will (usually) look out for my best interests and that their orders should be obeyed apart from in extenuating circumstances.

The same is true of drivers, yes even naice middle-class professional women. They drive drunk too. And, no, it is not possible for the police to tell reliably who is intoxicated by talking to them. I want drunk drivers off the roads

I’m sorry my post was hard to follow for you. I find your thinking a bit muddled too. Equating a machete wielding person with a lone women in a car who has a perfectly reasonably explanation and is suggesting alternatives (albeit not workable ones, but it shows willing) to giving a test whilst maintaining her sense of safety is just daft. Obviously the police thought it a reasonable explanation too at the time as they allowed her on her way.

People must comply without the law. Here, police need a reasonable suspicion that the driver is over the limit to demand a breath test. Now, what ‘reasonable’ equates to would need to be put to the test, but arguably there was no longer a reasonable case once the conversation had finished.

Bigger picture, my point that police need to be kept accountable and challenged when they are not doing things correctly stands (externally and from within). There are many cases that have shown this, and have led to change.

I know it wasn’t you that said it, but unless there is evidence that doing a breath test whilst someone’s perfectly calm in a car is not considered good practice, that seems a reasonable compromise to me.

Sorry, comply within the law, not without obviously. Crucial typo there.

Of course doing a breath test with someone sat in their car is a bad idea. It is likely to go very wrong when they fail the breath test, find themselves sat in the drivers seat with their keys and decide to make off. You then have a massive risk to that person and anyone they drive into, followed by headlines about incompetent police officers.

Not after an opinion, more if there is policy or a standard operating procedure on it.

If a compromise situation needed, could ask for keys first I guess.

When I have seen testing stops that do everyone driving past (normally around Xmas) it’s always been in car so obviously sometimes it’s deemed acceptable

Thank you! Tbh it was clearly sinister in intention. So much for these people being all about supporting women to make them feel safe whilst simultaneously making threats, I’ve taken a screen shot.

I think you’re the first person on this thread to use the word hysteria, probably more a reflection of your own thoughts????

I’m sorry my post was hard to follow for you. I find your thinking a bit muddled too. Equating a machete wielding person with a lone women in a car who has a perfectly reasonably explanation and is suggesting alternatives (albeit not workable ones, but it shows willing) to giving a test whilst maintaining her sense of safety is just daft. Obviously the police thought it a reasonable explanation too at the time as they allowed her on her way

My point about the machete- as I suspect you know very well - is that policing does not work if some groups are permitted to ignore the police’s instructions. (Although, as someone who has treated lots of both, I can assure you that you’re just as dead if you’re hit by a nice, middle-class drunk driver as you are if you’re macheted by a scrote).

This isn’t just because it would make the police’s job impossible, but because it is fundamental to a democratic society that everyone is subject to the law (yes, even you, Boris).

No one has questioned the police’s actions in regards to the OP, as an individual. But most of this thread has been posters arguing that lone women in general should be permitted to refuse police instructions.

Why lone women but not young black men? They are less at risk of sexual assault but at much higher risk of general assault. I bet there aren’t many MNetters arguing that the young men should be allowed to ignore police orders if they are afraid of the police.

@Daysoffarethebest are you a man? I’m genuinely surprised that a woman would accuse another woman of ‘hysteria’ for not getting out in the situation OP described.
On her own, industrial estate, early hours of the morning.
Broad daylight, on a high street with people around I would have got out no probs. But I wouldn’t have got out either unless they forced me to.

‘Why lone women but not young black men? They are less at risk of sexual assault but at much higher risk of general assault. I bet there aren’t many MNetters arguing that the young men should be allowed to ignore police orders if they are afraid of the police.’

Men are at less risk of being raped or sexually assaulted by two male police officers. But I’m sure a black man wouldn’t have been too happy about being stopped either, given the MET has been proved to be institutionally racist. And this was early hours, no-one else around.

This is why body cams should be compulsory for every interaction with the public. It protects everyone.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow Your post lays bare the issue the police now find themselves in.

There's a massive difference.

Your posts demonstrate exactly the point being made by me and others. This is a problem the police need to solve, not normal people. They lost our respect and need to get it back.

The fact is, a great number of people fundamentally do not trust the police and so are - sensibly - very cautious when it comes to interacting with them. If a lone woman is cornered by 2 men at night then it's fucking stupid to not remove yourself from that situation as quickly and as safely as possible, and recent events have shown that just because those men are wearing a uniform doesn't mean they are any more trustworthy than otherwise.
The truth is that it's clear that many forces are institutionally misogynist, racist and protect their own rather than actually seeking to change, a boys club full of people drunk on a teeny amount of power. Until that changes then I'm afraid I would not have got out of that car either.

I thought that lone women can phone the police if they're stopped alone by a male officer(s) YANBU but it's a sad state of affairs when you're unable to trust the police.