Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

About scouts refusing "time off".

197 replies

AmIreallyBeverly · 28/02/2023 09:47

TLDR: Should scouts hold a place for 3 months if we keep paying subs and have a good reason not to attend?

Son has done cubs/beavers/scouts at the same group. We've always actively supported them including volunteering occassionally. There are no other suitable groups.

He's got a very rare opportunity to do a 3month ice hockey course. He's been talking about similar stuff for ages and is desperate to do it. Of course it clashes with scouts.

We told scouts he wouldn't be coming for a 3 months and why but we would keep paying subs to hold his place. They said they won't hold his place because of their waiting list.

I'm so angry. We kept paying during lockdown when about half of parents stopped because they weren't doing anything. They all kept their places (I know some (not all) was due to the financial impact on some families. It was a local decision, not from regional). There are also families that turn up inconsistently or just for the good bits who keep their places.

He (and us) have already shown years of commitment so I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for 3 months "off". They won't be worse off for it.

My son doesn't want to give up scouts so has turned down the ice hockey but is really upset and it's made me not want to support them in any way going forward.

We did think lying to scouts and saying he was ill/we were on holiday/he has a Dr's appointment etc during those 3 months but didn't feel it was an appropriate thing to teach our son.

YANBU - as long as you pay subs and have a definate date you'll be returning, they should keep your place.

YABU - there are people waiting to join and 3 months is a long time.

OP posts:
titchy · 28/02/2023 09:51

It's not what I would call a good reason though is it. A good reason is medical treatment, bereavement, counselling. This is another hobby activity. Not really fair your kid should take two hobby places at the same time when kids off the waiting list can't even have one.

IglesiasPiggl · 28/02/2023 09:52

I would do the hockey and re-apply to scouts afterwards. In my area, scouts is when they start dropping off in favour of other things as they get older, and it nearly always has spaces coming up.

Seeline · 28/02/2023 09:53

If it was a couple of weeks it would be OK. But 3 months is a whole term!

It's not only preventing someone else from being able to enjoy scouts, it's also disrupting the running of meetings. Scouts do a lot of stuff as patrols - having a member missing for a whole term would make some activities harder.

Lastqueenofscotland2 · 28/02/2023 09:54

titchy · 28/02/2023 09:51

It's not what I would call a good reason though is it. A good reason is medical treatment, bereavement, counselling. This is another hobby activity. Not really fair your kid should take two hobby places at the same time when kids off the waiting list can't even have one.

Yes I agree with this.
3 months is a ridiculously long time

edwinbear · 28/02/2023 09:54

I can see both sides here. Is he actually going to be abroad for 3 months for the ice hockey course, or is it just that the ice hockey training times clash with scouts? If it's a clash between training times and scouts, from their perspective, he's prioritising ice hockey over scouts, when there are children on the waiting list who really, really, want to join scouts and would make that their top priority. What happens after the ice hockey course finishes? Is there a chance he could decide to take that up permanently and carry on, thus having to make a definitive choice? If he is selected for a team for example?

TeenDivided · 28/02/2023 09:55

Maybe you should have said yes to the ice hockey then missed 1 in 4 of those, so 3 weeks ice hockey, 1 week scouts for 3 months.

ZeroFuchsGiven · 28/02/2023 09:57

I think its extremely unfair to deny another child a place whist your ds is off doing another activity. He is obviously not committed to scouts, How many more times in the future will he be unable to attend due to matches etc?

FatAgainItsLettuceTime · 28/02/2023 09:57

Can he move to a different scouts unit that meets on a different day?

RunTowardsTheLight · 28/02/2023 09:58

I'm not sure which way to vote as I can see both sides to this. But anyway, I'd do the ice Hickey thing if I was him. It sounds like an amazing opportunity and he can go on the waiting list for scouts and re join in future.

WinterMusings · 28/02/2023 10:00

I can see both sides, but I don't think Scouts are being unreasonable.

Could there be a compromise where he goes on the top of the waiting list?

If you had to be out of the area for a parents job or to help an ekderky grandoarent or something I'd say it was unreasonable, but choosing to do a different hobby is a bit different & keeping a place while another child misses out really isn't fair.

we all have to make choices, we can't have everything exactly as we wish. Sadly, that's life.

givemushypeasachance · 28/02/2023 10:01

Most scouts groups are incredibly over subscribed, and kids can sit on the waiting list for years and never get a place. I understand your son doesn't want to lose his spot, but a 3 month commitment of doing another activity at the same time isn't the same as being away for a week, or having a hospital appointment and missing one or two weeks.

The subs aren't really the same as you paying for the scouts time, like it would be if it was a private nursery and you were paying for session of care. The nursery wouldn't care if you used it or not as long as you were paying for it. But for scouts, it's a volunteer-run organisation for the benefit of the kids, and subs just help cover some of the costs of running it. So saying well I'm paying that should keep the place if I'm using it or not, isn't the same in my view.

It would be more like there are free tickets to attend an event every week, with suggested donations, and you have gone regularly but then want to keep taking one of the tickets every week and not attending it for 3 months, meaning other people don't get a chance to attend either.

OakleyStreetisnotinChelsea · 28/02/2023 10:02

As a leader my concern would be that he may not return after the 3 months if the hockey becomes his passion. It is really hard and kids do get to the point they need to choose what activities are most important to them and persistent non attendance means kids on the waiting list miss out. We've had kids on the roll who pay subs but attend less than 50% of the time for no given reason and at times we have to say to parents that either the child attends or they give up the place.

We have to remember that our affects the child's achievements in scouting too. To get the bronze, silver and gold awards they need to do custom things and most of us as leaders have a bit of a rolling cycle within our term plans for how to manage this so a child who misses a lot of misses a whole term may not have the opportunity to complete it and then sees their peers getting an award which they do not have. It can be hard to repeat everything missed bedstraw there is so much to fit in to the programme. Of course your child may not be bothered about that but it should be a consideration.

That said, I think for 1 term I would hold the place but with a very strict deadline for confirmation of return and I would check what that means for the child and their gold award and website they and parents are aware of potential consequence for this.

CurlsLDN · 28/02/2023 10:03

I’m a cubs leader.
The subs you pay do not cover the whole cost of the child attending the group. If it did they wouldn’t be a charity or need to fundraise.
the groups funds go toward activities and of course many external activities kindly subsidise scout groups by offering discounted rates etc.
the leaders freely give their time to the group.

so if your son has a place but doesn’t attend for a long period, group funds are wasted as well as the time and efforts of the people involved - I know they would attend regardless but they have undergone extensive training and planning and are able to give that precious time to eg 25 kids, so it’s a waste if one never turns up.

i understand it’s hard for your son, but all those resources can be used on a child who actually wants to be there during that period.

as a pp suggests I’d let the place go and then rejoin if he wants to after

BellaJuno · 28/02/2023 10:06

Sorry I think the Scouts are being reasonable. If they’ve got a waiting list then there’s kids who are wanting to be there whilst your son wants to do something else for 3 months - seems unfair for the kids on the waiting list to miss out just so your son can try another activity.

WandaWonder · 28/02/2023 10:06

Because it is about all the scouts as a whole group not just your child

CaramelMach · 28/02/2023 10:07

YABU

Original poster
AmIreallyBeverly · 28/02/2023 10:08

If he does decide to keep up the ice hockey, it's at a time that doesn't clash with scouts so he could keep doing both. This really is a unique opportunity for long and boring reasons.

He wouldn't get another place at scouts if he quit. He is planning to continue onto Explorers.

I guess I'm cross because he has attended pretty much every week since he signed up when he was 6. Much more consistently than many others.

We also make him do the boring stuff such as attending church with them whereas there are children who just turn up for camps or events. He has shown he is committed and takes it seriously.

OP posts:
Original poster
AmIreallyBeverly · 28/02/2023 10:10

I guess IABU then and will just sit in a corner muttering to myself about how it's not fare.

OP posts:
Hazelnut5 · 28/02/2023 10:12

The subs aren't really the same as you paying for the scouts time, like it would be if it was a private nursery and you were paying for session of care. The nursery wouldn't care if you used it or not as long as you were paying for it. But for scouts, it's a volunteer-run organisation for the benefit of the kids, and subs just help cover some of the costs of running it.

^ This. Scout leaders give up their time to do something for the kids. They don’t take any other reward or payment. They would still be giving up their time for your son, but he wouldn’t be there. It’s perfectly right that they offer his place to someone else.

GPFavo · 28/02/2023 10:13

I’d do the ice hockey.

darjeelingrose · 28/02/2023 10:14

It is fair though, he's not going to be there, you sign up to attend, it's not a country club. He'd now rather do something else, which is also his choice. Attendance doesn't give him the right to anything except further attendance.

IglesiasPiggl · 28/02/2023 10:14

Honestly OP, it will work itself out. Don't forget that Duke of Edinburgh isn't really that different to Explorers so could he do that instead once he's in Y9, if he isn't able to re-join Scouts? Personality I think the unique hockey opportunity sounds a lot more exciting and more difficult to replicate with other activities.

Original poster
AmIreallyBeverly · 28/02/2023 10:17

Just to add as well, I managed to get work to donate over £500 to them to pay for new tents so again, it shows commitment. It involved a full business case and a lot of work (albeit nowhere near as much work as the volunteers do).

OP posts:
Tiredalwaystired · 28/02/2023 10:17

Sorry, I’m also with scouts on this one. We had the same when my daughter wanted to temporarily leave guides as there were in a play that rehearsed at the same time. Luckily there was a space for her to come back to but she recognised she had to make a choice at the time.

Sometimes our kids have to make difficult choices and that’s all there is to it.

mumoffourminimes · 28/02/2023 10:18

No. They have limited capacity and it's blocking an opportunity for another child to join

Swipe left for the next trending thread