About scouts refusing "time off".

[AmIreallyBeverly]

TLDR: Should scouts hold a place for 3 months if we keep paying subs and have a good reason not to attend?

Son has done cubs/beavers/scouts at the same group. We've always actively supported them including volunteering occassionally. There are no other suitable groups.

He's got a very rare opportunity to do a 3month ice hockey course. He's been talking about similar stuff for ages and is desperate to do it. Of course it clashes with scouts.

We told scouts he wouldn't be coming for a 3 months and why but we would keep paying subs to hold his place. They said they won't hold his place because of their waiting list.

I'm so angry. We kept paying during lockdown when about half of parents stopped because they weren't doing anything. They all kept their places (I know some (not all) was due to the financial impact on some families. It was a local decision, not from regional). There are also families that turn up inconsistently or just for the good bits who keep their places.

He (and us) have already shown years of commitment so I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for 3 months "off". They won't be worse off for it.

My son doesn't want to give up scouts so has turned down the ice hockey but is really upset and it's made me not want to support them in any way going forward.

We did think lying to scouts and saying he was ill/we were on holiday/he has a Dr's appointment etc during those 3 months but didn't feel it was an appropriate thing to teach our son.

YANBU - as long as you pay subs and have a definate date you'll be returning, they should keep your place.

YABU - there are people waiting to join and 3 months is a long time.

I’m a guide leader and we have a couple who are in the local panto at Christmas time and we hold their space. It depends on the list I think. Our wait list is pretty small as we are rural but I think if someone is keen and been involved the whole time we would do our best to come up with a compromise. Maybe the scouts are stricter than guides.

Op you have multiple threads about all the issues and things that have pissed you off

last one asking whether you should complain about dancing in an acting class. Last week!

and then few days before that… complaining about a friend

I could go on. And on.

I think if there is a waiting list and he won't be attending for three months your proposal is very entitled and selfish. You want him to have his cake and eat it, preventing others from having the same opportunity. What is that teaching him exactly? Its fair to go back in the waiting list again.

The subs are irrelevant as they are hardly a massive expense and a lot of people continued to pay these and support this clubs and small businesses over lockdown if their finances were not impacted.

If there is such a long waiting list that your son definitely won’t get a place ever again if he loses this one … then I can understand why they don’t want to hold an empty place, there are clearly loads of families desperate for a place.

If there isn’t such a long waiting list then your son can go back on it after ice hockey and wait for his name to come up again.

Either way I do think YABU.

Can he shift to a group on a different day or are they all oversubscribed too?

Could you get them to put him at the top of the waiting list after 3 months as a recent and consistent member?

When they have a waiting list for scouts, I don't think son can have his cake and eat it. That's not fair, and neither is it fair for you to think you can hold his place open by paying for it. Whoever filled it, would also be paying the same subs.

He has to make a choice. Hockey or Scouts.

He could give up scouts and join the waiting list when hockey course finishes.

Standard procedure.

You being a volunteer or raising money for them to show you are committed is irrelevant. It's his commitment that matters and clearly if he's going to take 3 months off then he isn't committed.

OK, so what about the effort we've put in? I KNOW VOLUNTEERS DO MUCH MORE (in capitals so no one can say I'm devaluing, don't appreciate the work they put in or think I'm comparing myself).

• I've run beaver groups (supervised obviously) when they needed some support. My son had left beavers by then.
• We ALWAYS volunteer when they ask for parent helpers in any of the groups. I hate it TBH but if they need support, then they need support.
• We donate to every cause. I've raised money for them.
• I did discuss volunteerimg in a (non child facing!) role but couldn't commit.
• We don't do teacher gifts but always do gifts for the volunteers.
• We attend every event even the boring ones. At various points in the past, my son has been the only cub/scout there. That isn't an exaggeration.

It's an informal group. They don't really do much by lodge or build stuff up week by week. I've never heard of the gold award?

Anyway, thanks for everyone's input. I get the message! 🤣

This seems the fairest option - to essentially swap places with the child at the top of the waiting list. A new place may cone up quite quickly, as many teens ime tend to drop out of Scouts. You should also put him on the waiting list for Explorers, so he gas a further chance to return at that point.

That's rubbish. I'm sorry to hear that. 😔

I volunteer in Scouting and we have very long waiting lists at all levels, so much so that we often have to tell parents that their child is unlikely to get a place because they will be too old by the time it's their 'turn' (we do try to prioritise older children but also have to balance this with children who have been on the waiting list for longest). We have quite a few parents who ask to do the sort of thing the OP is suggesting (eg. missing a term or so for the cricket/football etc season). If we said yes to them all we would end up with hardly anyone attending in some terms whilst other children are turned away. As well as not being fair and being disruptive to the programme, we know that when we have agreed in the past we have to deal with complaints from parents of children on the waiting list when they inevitably find out. Children who are not attending sessions also, understandably, want to attend camps etc that are at different times but won't have been at the sessions where were prepare for them. As volunteers, this all adds to the workload.

Yrbu OP

Yep, money can’t always get you your way unfortunately.

That would be 14 sessions with an empty space.

Ice hockey sounds ten times as fun as scouts.

I don’t think your commitment is relevant - it would be highly discriminatory for a group to favour children of parents who were wealthy; well-connected; not evening or shift workers; not disabled; not with other childcare commitments for siblings etc etc.

One of the great things about Scouts and Guides is the diversity of young people. In DS group, there were children from state schools, independent schools and elective home education, hedge fund manager’s children alongside those whose parents were unemployed. I think it would be selfish to hold a place for your child when another child may have no hobbies or enrichment in their life.

As a cub leader, I would put your child at the top of the waiting list to return, but not automatically hold the place. Have you asked the scouts if this is a possibility? It might still mean a wait to join back in, but highly unlikely that he'd never get back in. Or could your DS transfer to another scout troop on a different evening?

On balance though, I think you are unreasonable to expect the scouts to hold your place open, when they could easily fill it.

I appreciate that you feel you support the scouts, but that's not really what this is about. The volunteers give up hours and hours of their time for free, so it's not about the money at all.

Exactly. Which is why favouring a specific child because of their parent’s income and ability to be involved / commit extra time would be so unjust.

Has he considered skipping the rest of Scouts in favour of hockey but joining the Explorers waiting list?

I know some groups do prioritise families who've demonstrated commitment t the organisation - I am pretty sure my daughter got a leg-up the Rainbows waiting list because I did a lot of helping at Beavers and Cubs for her brothers.

However, in those busy areas where you've got a whole cohort of kids wantying to join and no space, a full term of holding an empty space would be absolutely unfair.

It's not about the money though is it, it's the waiting list. Wealthy families can afford to behave like this, taking up two spots in activities but only actually attending one, this making the waiting list longer for everyone else. If he really wants to try ice hockey that much, he'll just have to go back onto the waiting list for scouts. Yes they should hold the waiting list open if someone is ill for example. But being in a position pay to "reserve" your spot whilst actually doing something else is not a good reason.

I wouldn't turn down the ice hockey if that's something he really wants to do.
I would skip 3 and turn up for 1 like some pp said.

It's a totally different thing that is a whole new opportunity. Don't let it go waste.

Op you’re missing the point. It’s really not about the money. Or how much you’ve fundraised. It’s that you want to hoard a place for 3 months without using it, when they have a very king waiting list.

It always makes me laugh when people go off searching about others. I never think I'm that interesting so it's flattering you think I am. Thank you.

FWIW. I didn't complain about the dancing in the end (taking on board, what was said on here, like I will on this post) however numerous other parents did and the school sent out a letter explaining it was the first play the member of staff had written and they would be looking to "tweek" it as the rehearsals went on. In summary, the dancing was removed.

TBH, I don't think anyone posts about the mundane stuff do they? They post to moan about stuff or ask opinions. It would be mighty boring and I'd be called bragger and insensitive or told to read the room if I posted the good stuff the school had done or how lucky we are to have the swimming teacher we do etc.

I can see where scouts coming from. Places are scare lots of groups haven’t restarted after pandemic due to lack of volunteers. It’s depriving another child of the opportunity. Realistically he’ll be off until September if he has 3 months off. It’s awkward to start back mid term re badges etc.
I’d do hockey and go on wait list to re join or look for another scout group in September.

I'm a Scout leader, and if one of ours asked to do this it would be fine, if annoying that they'd miss out on a lot of activities and wouldn't get badges, but then we don't have a waiting list and are under numbers currently.

If we did have a waiting list then we'd probably have to say no, as why should other kids who would attend every session have to miss out. Even if your son has been there since Beavers it doesn't mean he's some extra special Scout worthy of preference. Imagine the uproar if Scout leaders played favourites. If they let you do it, then others follow (football, cricket etc) and end up with hardly any kids weekly but a huge waiting list!