Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

About scouts refusing "time off".

197 replies

AmIreallyBeverly · 28/02/2023 09:47

TLDR: Should scouts hold a place for 3 months if we keep paying subs and have a good reason not to attend?

Son has done cubs/beavers/scouts at the same group. We've always actively supported them including volunteering occassionally. There are no other suitable groups.

He's got a very rare opportunity to do a 3month ice hockey course. He's been talking about similar stuff for ages and is desperate to do it. Of course it clashes with scouts.

We told scouts he wouldn't be coming for a 3 months and why but we would keep paying subs to hold his place. They said they won't hold his place because of their waiting list.

I'm so angry. We kept paying during lockdown when about half of parents stopped because they weren't doing anything. They all kept their places (I know some (not all) was due to the financial impact on some families. It was a local decision, not from regional). There are also families that turn up inconsistently or just for the good bits who keep their places.

He (and us) have already shown years of commitment so I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for 3 months "off". They won't be worse off for it.

My son doesn't want to give up scouts so has turned down the ice hockey but is really upset and it's made me not want to support them in any way going forward.

We did think lying to scouts and saying he was ill/we were on holiday/he has a Dr's appointment etc during those 3 months but didn't feel it was an appropriate thing to teach our son.

YANBU - as long as you pay subs and have a definate date you'll be returning, they should keep your place.

YABU - there are people waiting to join and 3 months is a long time.

OP posts:
Blueyandbingooo · 28/02/2023 11:49

I do get the point about commitment, but alternatively one of the founding ethos was to provide opportunities to children, some parents might not have been able to afford subs over lockdown, or donated extras or whatever else. I don't think it's necessarily fair to view these as deserving of preferential treatment. Sure if someone never bothered turning up or whatever then that's different, but a lot of what OP mentions is monetary.

CMO · 28/02/2023 11:53

AmIreallyBeverly · 28/02/2023 10:10

I guess IABU then and will just sit in a corner muttering to myself about how it's not fare.

It's totally fair and you are being entitled.

underneaththeash · 28/02/2023 11:55

I would do that too in my girlguiding group. We have a massive waiting list, there are several girls on it who will ever get a place, I’m not going to hold a space for someone who’s not going to come.

DuvetDownn · 28/02/2023 11:55

I think the scouts are being reasonable.

MumOf2workOptions · 28/02/2023 11:56

I think it's not really a good reason we had similar with my daughters brownies and someone doing a dance completion

The waiting list is huge so if people leave they won't hold the space and if you miss more than 2 weeks without good reason you also loose the slot.

MrsRosieBrew · 28/02/2023 11:57

Actually that level of selfishness/unawareness is quite staggering.

Couldn’t agree more.

TenoringBehind · 28/02/2023 12:01

My son does Scouts with a group that does allow people to pay subs and do other things and actually it is proving very disruptive to the group. Half the time there are only a handful of the scouts actually there and they don’t have enough people to do activities fully and properly. It’s not just about the money, it’s about group dynamics. I feel for the leaders who plan on the basis that everyone will turn up, and often there’s only 5 rather than 15.

in your case, the fact that’s there’s a waiting list makes it even more unfair.

SpyouttheLand · 28/02/2023 12:03

It's not about all the things you've done OP, its about another child who won't get a place when there's one unused. Surely yiu don't really want to raise a child who thinks they're that important?

Maybe his track record could mean he gets the first place available once he's ready to return?

MoirasSaggyBundles · 28/02/2023 12:13

I run a guide unit. We have held a place for a guide in similar circumstances. When we have a committed and interested guide, we like to repay their enthusiasm with a bit of give and take. We'd want them to come and tell us all about it, and maybe even teach some skills to the unit when they return. 3 months is not that big a deal, but any more than that might result in us ending their membership, as we do have a long wait list.

Xol · 28/02/2023 12:15

If I were you I would just junk the scouts, it's their loss. But that is because I've never been that impressed with them anyway.

melj1213 · 28/02/2023 12:16

YABU - you don't get to pay to hold a space until your better offer is done.

It would be one thing of there was no/a very short waiting list but if they have a long waiting list then they are perfectly justified in not wanting to hold a place for someone who may or may not not return. It would be nice if them to compromise, not hold the place but put your child at the top of the waiting list when he wants to return but that's not obligatory.

3 months from now is June/July, depending on when that 3 months would start, so if your child's Scout group only run during term time then he would be missing the summer term and then potentially not returning in September (a lot of parents reassess their child's extra curricular activities at he start of the new school year) so they may be depriving a child of a space until September that they could have taken up now. Or they find out in June that your child doesn't want to continue and they then have only a couple of weeks left where they either give someone the place for a couple of weeks at the end of term or again have an empty place as they don't want to start someone until the new term starts.

Frabbits · 28/02/2023 12:19

3 months is a long time to expect them to hold a place. It's not about the money, it's about providing a safe place for kids to go and learn. If another parent found out that the scouts were holding a place for 3 months because a kid had a better offer, they'd rightly be annoyed at that.

FeinCuroxiVooz · 28/02/2023 12:20

I think it's a good lesson for your son that he cannot do All Of The Things. sometimes choices have to be made. Scouts troops aren't run for the money, so paying subs isn't enough to keep a place open. Having people who are notionally "part of the group" that never show up spoils the group activities because there aren't enough people to fill the teams/carry out all the tasks.

I think that passing up the Ice Hockey in favour of Scouts was a poor decision though. The ice hockey opportunity had a lot more going for it and can't easily be replicated with something else instead. Whereas, it would have been easy to apply for membership at a different scout troop (or different youth organisation, there are at least half a dozen different ones whose weekly activities are basically the same as Scouts), finding one that meets on a different day of the week.

melj1213 · 28/02/2023 12:27

TenoringBehind · 28/02/2023 12:01

My son does Scouts with a group that does allow people to pay subs and do other things and actually it is proving very disruptive to the group. Half the time there are only a handful of the scouts actually there and they don’t have enough people to do activities fully and properly. It’s not just about the money, it’s about group dynamics. I feel for the leaders who plan on the basis that everyone will turn up, and often there’s only 5 rather than 15.

in your case, the fact that’s there’s a waiting list makes it even more unfair.

This is why I ended up leaving Guides as a teenager - our unit was supposed to be 25 girls but on an average week you'd get half of that number at best and there was just no consistency, so I left and went to do a different extra curricular activity where attendance was much stricter and there was a much better level of consistency and progress.

The various patrols were never complete and because it was different people missing every week if we were working on badges or projects then it was almost impossible to get stuff completed. Everyone was at different stages and people were constantly having to be caught up with what they'd missed etc which made it really annoying for those of us who were there every week and having to repeat things over and over again.

It also meant that everything always had to be modified - if there was an activity that relied on us working in patrols but we had some patrols with a full cohort and others with partial cohorts then there was constant shifting around to even the numbers; if the leaders had planned an activity for 25 girls and there were only 9 then it took nowhere near as long to do so they had to create extra activities just in case.

Not to mention the materials they had bought that were wasted, although they would do their best to reuse them for different activities sometimes that wasn't possible eg if it was cooking/baking and they had bought a large 30pack of eggs because there were 25 girls and we all needed an egg each and to allow for a couple of breakages, then when only 10 girls showed up they had 20 spare eggs ... Now the leaders could take them home to use up or we could all do double whatever the project was but it meant that the outlay for the materials (that was paid for out of subs) was triple what it needed to be, and if the leader had only had to buy one box of 12 eggs then there would have been more money left over for more materials/activities etc. It may only be small amounts but it all adds up.

user1492757084 · 28/02/2023 12:29

Would he get back in if he were to apply as soon as he left to play hockey? ie Is the wait time more than 3 months?
Could you pay the Scout fees for the next boy in the wait line while your son is at hockey?
I'm surprised that Scouts don't see the temporary hockey opportunity as a plus for the Scout - an added skill that might be utilized by your son in a leadership way on Scout nights - Have you asked them to consider the benefits to the group?

user1492757084 · 28/02/2023 12:30

Also have you asked whether hockey could change to a different day?

Vegrocks · 28/02/2023 12:54

My spidey senses tell me the problem is you OP.

and the group is using your son’s hockey clash as a reason to stop you coming

you convey yourself on this thread and your others as a very angry and shouty person

RedToothBrush · 28/02/2023 12:56

Your son is getting an opportunity for two things. He has to chose which. This allows another child to have the opportunity for scouts.

Scout leaders don't do it for money. They do it to give children an experience. If your child doesn't want to take that opportunity and experience why should another child miss out, if there is space available?

Many of the activities scouts do, are group work or have to have a minimum to run - especially special events like camps. If you miss a bunch of sessions, then the numbers don't work for the activity as a whole or make it viable to run special events.

Especially since it's not just about your kid - if they say "yes we will hold your place open so they can do x", you will get multiple kids trying to do the same so they can do football/cricket/rugby on a seasonal basis.

I know DHs troop had a number of kids try and do this and werent fully committed to turning up every week because they were doing something else they thought was more important/ more interesting. They were eventually given the boot. This gave the chance to kids who were really into it who wouldnt have got the chance otherwise.

Allowing it once sets a precedent - it's never just one child.

Life lesson for child: which is more important to them - doing the hockey or doing scouts. You can't demand you do everything (at the expense of someone else) just because you can wave a wad of cash and wail it's unfair that they can't hold the place. What about the kids who can't afford to do multiple clubs? Keeping in mind scouts is cheaper than just about any other after school activity. These are kids who are old enough by the time they get to scouts to understand they have to start making choices.

YABVU.

Scouts is about giving opportunity and getting involved. It's not about who can wave cash and be the most entitled. Thank fuck.

redskydelight · 28/02/2023 12:58

Your best option, as mentioned already, is to ask that he be put at the top of the waiting list. I can pretty much guarantee that they will have spaces in September.
I can also (based on experience of girlguiding) pretty much guarantee that your DS won't want to return to Scouts in September. He'll feel he's missed too much, be in a new routine and have potentially simply outgrown it.

Vegrocks · 28/02/2023 12:58

Could you pay the Scout fees for the next boy in the wait line while your son is at hockey?

I have read this a few times but can’t understand what this would achieve

Vegrocks · 28/02/2023 13:00

It always makes me laugh when people go off searching about others. I never think I'm that interesting so it's flattering you think I am. Thank you.

copy user name
paste in AS
select thread title only
hey presto… up come your complaints

30 seconds? And revealing

soleilblue · 28/02/2023 13:02

user1492757084 · 28/02/2023 12:29

Would he get back in if he were to apply as soon as he left to play hockey? ie Is the wait time more than 3 months?
Could you pay the Scout fees for the next boy in the wait line while your son is at hockey?
I'm surprised that Scouts don't see the temporary hockey opportunity as a plus for the Scout - an added skill that might be utilized by your son in a leadership way on Scout nights - Have you asked them to consider the benefits to the group?

Don't be ridiculous unless it's a camp to learn how to instruct hockey how would it be any use to scouts.

Why would OP paying for another child to attend help in anyway ?

Vegrocks · 28/02/2023 13:05

Yes I’m intrigued too @user1492757084

budgiegirl · 28/02/2023 13:11

Could you pay the Scout fees for the next boy in the wait line while your son is at hockey?

This makes no sense at all. Have I misunderstood what you mean?

I'm surprised that Scouts don't see the temporary hockey opportunity as a plus for the Scout - an added skill that might be utilized by your son in a leadership way on Scout nights - Have you asked them to consider the benefits to the group?

It's true that scouts should be encouraged to share skills/teach others scouts, but to be fair, ice hockey is pretty niche, and I can't really think how they could fit this into the programme on a regular basis. And the risk assessment of a scout teaching others ice hockey, without professional instructors in attendance, just doesn't bear thinking about!

Untitledsquatboulder · 28/02/2023 13:13

Look at it this way OP, he's already had the benefit of years of scouting. If he can't make use of further benefit at this point, let someone else have a go. I think it's extremely likely he'd be able to return for Explorers as this is when many do drop out for other things.