About scouts refusing "time off".

[AmIreallyBeverly]

TLDR: Should scouts hold a place for 3 months if we keep paying subs and have a good reason not to attend?

Son has done cubs/beavers/scouts at the same group. We've always actively supported them including volunteering occassionally. There are no other suitable groups.

He's got a very rare opportunity to do a 3month ice hockey course. He's been talking about similar stuff for ages and is desperate to do it. Of course it clashes with scouts.

We told scouts he wouldn't be coming for a 3 months and why but we would keep paying subs to hold his place. They said they won't hold his place because of their waiting list.

I'm so angry. We kept paying during lockdown when about half of parents stopped because they weren't doing anything. They all kept their places (I know some (not all) was due to the financial impact on some families. It was a local decision, not from regional). There are also families that turn up inconsistently or just for the good bits who keep their places.

He (and us) have already shown years of commitment so I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for 3 months "off". They won't be worse off for it.

My son doesn't want to give up scouts so has turned down the ice hockey but is really upset and it's made me not want to support them in any way going forward.

We did think lying to scouts and saying he was ill/we were on holiday/he has a Dr's appointment etc during those 3 months but didn't feel it was an appropriate thing to teach our son.

YANBU - as long as you pay subs and have a definate date you'll be returning, they should keep your place.

YABU - there are people waiting to join and 3 months is a long time.

How old is your son, @AmIreallyBeverly, and would he be old enough to volunteer as a Scout leader, rather than going on the waiting list to rejoin the group? If he were to do the ice hockey course, that is.

If her son is at scouts, then he will be somewhere between 10 and 13. He would need to be at least 13 1/2 to volunteer as a young leader, which is old enough to be an Explorer anyway, so it wouldn't help in this situation.

Thank you, @budgiegirl.

Sounds to me like he's very committed. He's chosen scouts over sports

What you need to consider here is that your son has a great opportunity to take part in another hobby and extra curricular activity. For some children the scouts is possibly all their family can afford to send them to especially with the increased cost of living. Why should you pay for a space that your child is not using when another child who maybe doesn't have the same opportunities as your son could benefit from.

On another note as a youth worker (not with the scouts) if they let you do this it sets a bad precedent where its OK for kids not to attend because they have football/ church group/ hockey/ swimming etc etc etc. If it's ok for you it has to be OK for other parents. This means at certain times of the year especially, the group will have higher rates of absenteeism meaning the leaders will be limited in what activities they can do with the kids who do attend and they might be put in a position where numbers drop enough that they can't follow through on their plans which affects the trust the kids attending have in their leaders.

It also would be highly frustrating for parents of kids on the waiting list to see spaces being used on paper but not in reality. It also makes it a nightmare for the leaders to plan sessions and activities in advance as they would no longer be able to accurately predict their numbers. Most Youth provision will have a similar approach unless its a drop in with no specific activities planned. Yabu. Your son can just sign back up again afterwards.

Yes he’s committed now

but what’s to stay that this young teen would still be committed in September when he returned? I wouldn’t bet on it. Meanwhile another child that could have been benefiting hasnt as this empty place was left languishing

again, as a parent I would feel very uncomfortable knowing that by doing this I was leaving the space unused AND putting volunteers in a difficult position ie asked if there’s space and essentially having to lie

DH had a Scout drop out because he didn't want to do explorers / felt he'd done scouts / had another activity he wanted to on the same night.

Six months later he came back as a young leader. Its totally different for him to being a Scout/Explorer as it involves more responsibility and was the step up he wanted / needed. Its on a different night of the week. DH had discussed this with him before he left, due to the circumstances of him leaving.

This kid is doing really well and loving it. Its getting more from being a young leader than he would being in a troop himself. Plus he gets to do the other activity he wants. Win - win.

Dropping out of Scouts doesn't mean the end of Scouting if the OP's son loves it that much and the waiting list to return is too long. There are ways back into it - assuming of course you are as committed to scouting as the OP insists her son is...

I think for all the talk, the OPs son perhaps ISN'T as committed as she tries to make out.

*Six months later he came back as a young leader. Its totally different for him to being a Scout/Explorer as it involves more responsibility and was the step up he wanted / needed. Its on a different night of the week. DH had discussed this with him before he left, due to the circumstances of him leaving.

This kid is doing really well and loving it. Its getting more from being a young leader than he would being in a troop himself. Plus he gets to do the other activity he wants. Win - win*

That's great to hear - I'm a big fan of teenagers being Young Leaders, we have three at my cub pack, and my own daughter is also one. It's a great way to give back to scouting, while also gaining so many skills and confidence.

However, my point was that it's not going to solve the OP's problem of gaining a place back at scouts. If her DS is old enough to volunteer as a young leader, he's old enough to join Explorers, which usually doesn't have a waiting list anyway, so the issue of rejoining his scout troop is no longer relevant.

Dropping out of Scouts doesn't mean the end of Scouting if the OP's son loves it that much and the waiting list to return is too long. There are ways back into it - assuming of course you are as committed to scouting as the OP insists her son is...

Unfortunately, if her son is of scout age, there isn't a way to bypass the waiting list, until her son is older. Unless of course, the OP volunteers as a leader, that should be a sure way of getting her son back in

Although if he's had "years of commitment" he must be close to Explorers age and they don't generally have pressure on numbers. Or he can come back as a helper once he's old enough.

I will say again, your points are taken on board. He chose scouts. I accepted their decision without argument. I know that the person in charge of the region just wants an easy life so if I went to her about it, she would have "authorised" it but I didn't because I respect the leaders.

People seem to have missed the point when I said that a lot of other children are sporadic in their attendance. In some cases there will be reasons but so many only turn up when they feel like it or just for the fun activities. So suggesting that my son (who has missed about 4 weeks in all the years he's been going) is lacking commitment is hardly true when you look at the (lack of) engagement and consistency of some of the other children/family.

We could have done that for 3 months easily but thought we would show respect to the volunteers by being truthful about when he can attend.

Yes, he has put a hell of a lot of effort in, including doing extras for them such as standing in the rain during a recruitment event (only cub or scout to turn up). So the unnessery and bitchy comments about making it about me are absolute crap and probably say a lot of about the people making them.

Similarly, if the volunteers hated me as some of you are suggesting, then why do they ask me to get involved when there are other options for them?

As for me wanting to carry favour or to only benefit my son. Really? First, why would I? Second, why would I run beaver sessions when he'd long left beavers? It doesn't make sense. Ironically whilst some of you are accusing me of only helping for selfish reasons, others are suggesting I volunteer for my own self serving reasons. So whatever I do, I lose according to MN.

Anyway, I didn't realise this would be so contentious or result in name calling and allegations of entitlement (God, I can't wait for that word to no longer be favour of the day on here and for people to think of something original). I don't think I've been told to read the room yet though?

Thank you to the people who posted respectful comments and managed to disagree without being horrible.

And yes, I agree the ice hockey would have been the "better" choice but it wasn't my decision to make and after going over the pros/cons of both, he chose scouts.

He clearly loves Scouts and I'm glad he's made the right decision for him.

The Icehockey sounded fab but then you never know if that would have become his thing and the end of his time in Scouts. Or if he'd have hated it and regretted giving his Scout place up.

I can't get excited about kids being a bit flaky you don't know their circumstances a fair few will be living between houses parents doing shifts not always able to take them. Siblings can also make dropping off and collecting difficult.

I think you've had a bit of a hard time here OP

But I agree with others that, with a long wait list, it's not fair to allow your DS to have 3 months off

Yes, it's between them and the leaders but my point was that it's common and far too many families do it to all have "legitimate reasons". But I'm going over the same points. 😊

He's old enough to make his own decisions on what hobbies he does (and hopefully he won't regret chosing scouts). It's just frustrating because the ice hockey wouldn't normally interfear with scouts in anyway.

And? Surely you were doing it to benefit the children and the organisation, not to gain leverage over them?

They will manage just fine without you.

Yawn

This.

You are being very unfair to deprive another child. Medical reasons are good reasons, not ice hockey.

@AmIreallyBeverly just ignore the rabid and/or newcomer posters. They’ll jump on you no matter what you say. They’re like dogs with a bone.

YANBU. I think it's really sad that he's been forced to miss out. The ethos of Scouts is surely about breadth of experience and wellbeing. I think you have made a good case for an exemption for 3-months, such a shame they won't allow it.

I don't blame the Scouts, they have a rule about not holding places for good reason. If they held it for you because you 'showed commitment', then it undermines any attempt they may make in the future to drop a child who doesn't attend. Their parents can simply point to you and say 'you made an exception for them, so why not us?'

Its harsh but fair. If I was a Scout leader, I'd be the same. Enforce the rules by the book all the time and you make your own life a hell of a lot easier.

It is simple really. Packs are such a volatile community. If you have the dates, they look at their current members to see if someone is moving up within the 3 months - if so they can take someone off the waiting list now, and then keep the space vacated later. If not, they could perhaps see if someone on the waiting list would be of moving up age in 3 months time, and take them for the duration.