To think many women don’t want their ex involved?

[SpinningFloppa]

My ex doesn’t see our children because he doesn’t want to be involved. No real reason he just doesn’t want to be around. When I mention this to people they will usually fall over themselves to tell me how lucky I am that my ex doesn’t bother, and how they wish theirs wouldn’t bother. I’m not talking about cases of abuse that would be understandable (my ex however was not abusive to our kids) but they always go on to say that they hate “sharing” their kids with their ex and that I’m lucky I don’t have to and get to parent my own way. It’s always about how they feel and never any acknowledgment over how their kids would feel if their father didn’t want to see them.

Yet at the same time dead beat dads who don’t see or bother with their kids are rightly slated but it seems many women prefer the dead beat dad! So is it any wonder many men don’t bother when women make it clear they would prefer it if they weren’t around? 50/50 is apparently bad for children and they feel like they don’t belong anywhere but EOW is then considered not good enough and an uninvolved ex who only wants to do the fun parts of parenting but none of the hard work, so basically a Disney dad. What is the ideal contact set up or would most women just prefer if if their ex disappeared?

(Just to clarify again as I know people will comment on abuse but that’s not what I’m talking about, I’m not mentioning to people that my ex was abusive and now doesn’t see our kids and they are telling me I’m lucky, I’m simply saying he doesn’t see them and get met with “you’re lucky he doesn’t bother with them, I wish my ex didn’t bother!”)

I am not trying to convince anyone. It is impossible to convince anyone that doesn't base their opinion on facts. I am just trying to relay my experience that supports the OP's experience.

@taxpayer1 - you are finger wagging and not thinking. If I say most people manage their arrangements fine, then that tells you that there is not a big issue with most splits except the emotional fall out. But cases in court will have other factors, because otherwise what happens is that these cases are resolved pretty fast since there is no real evidence of abuse or safeguarding risk.

This is about children, not the hurt feelings of parents. Those parents need to get over themselves like the vast majority do. Very few people like going to court. It is a real last resort. When people do go, it is always because no other way is available.

I've found this with my DP's ex. He's trying everything to see them more (no abuse in their relationship just one that didn't work out and he met me after that) but she's intent on keeping him away from the kids and since finding out we are expecting a baby (6 months in and exceptionally excited) she has been worse, cutting down the hours, erecting every barrier possible. I hate it as I love them so much and it's breaking my DP's heart, as well as the children's. 100% understand what you mean - she's like trying to phase him out which is preferable for her because then she doesn't have to deal with him moving on (out of sight out of mind kind of thing) and also then is playing the martyr 'he walked out on his kids etc' when in reality he's doing his utmost to see them more. It breaks my heart like because he's genuinely a really good dad and he's actually got physically sick all this.

Maybe this isn't other peoples' experience but it's definitely mine and DP's. I think there are some deadbeat dads but there are also some really really selfish mothers too in my experience.

Like this you mean:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-63349195

@taxpayer1 - nice try but that's amateur grade effort. Is it your stance that one exceptional case makes a rule?

I assume so. But your point is not on point. If I say the vast majority child contact cases are resolved amicably, doesn't that mean your link falls into a category which is s minority?

Maybe you'd like to actually make an argument?

You don't have an argument as it is not based on anything.

9 Ways to Construct a Compelling Argument
Keep it simple. ...
Be fair on your opponent. ...
Avoid other common fallacies. ...
Make your assumptions clear. ...
Rest your argument on solid foundations. ...
Use evidence your readers will believe. ...
Avoid platitudes and generalisations, and be specific. ...
Understand the opposing point of view.

Actually the reason I don't want him around is coz he adds nothing positive to my life except cash, he has had little interest in anything actually important for the children since they were born like school, homework, after-school clubs, friendships, healthy eating, emotional care, ie putting them first...he is considering things slightly more now he knows that they now see how little he does/did, but he will never change the fact that they are not his top priority and they see this and I have to deal with the ups and downs of that...plus all the workload of actually raising them, but he will play a blinder I'm sure, do sweet FA for most of their lives then put a couple of years effort towards the end of childhood so that they 'forget' how Disney like he was for the majority and people will heap praise on what an involved dad he is...and I will get told how lucky the children are that they have a good dad 🙄😡

Come on finger wagger, explain your point and show me how it's done according to your Google rules

I think there’s truth in this, especially on a site like where the DNA/culture of the site is very much supportive of women. That can sometimes lead to thinking they can do no wrong.

I'm not claiming to know anything about statistics. In my experience, nephew was used as a pawn by his mother and brother went to court, not because he was dragged there, quite the opposite. I also know of other children with rubbish dads and brilliant mothers. The OP's original post just clearly touched a nerve.

I think lots of people on this thread have acknowledged that it does happen occasionally. It's the suggestion by OP and others that it's often or all the time that people have had an issue with because that just does not seem to reflect the real life most people experience.

The odd woman who purposefully tries to keep children away from their father - sure, probably happens.

The bulk of women making a huge effort to facilitate contact between their DC and their exes - what we all see in real life.

taxpayer1

Poor MRA, just because you are a bad father and man, does not mean that we think all or even the majority of men are like you.

I appreciate this is anecdotal, I am in my late 40s and sadly a lot of the couples whose weddings I attending in my 20s are now seperated. The 'exDHs' concerned to the best of my knowledge were not abusive, had addiction issues, were cheating or were otherwise 'bad' people. The relationships failed and both parties divorced. Yes the mothers were happy to 'facilitate' contact but their starting position was never 50/50 and and the default assumption was 'a child's place is with the mother' (I have actually heard this phrase uttered on more then a few occasions). The men concerned were engaged fathers prior to separation and wanted to remain so, they sought accommodation in the neighbourhood so they could do school runs, all the extra curricular activities and generally 'be there'. I was surprised how these mums honestly thought they were initially being reasonable by proposing ('letting' or 'allowing') otherwise good loving fathers very limited contact each week and then getting the hump when this was rejected. Thankfully they were not involved in lengthy custody battles as common sense eventually prevailed (i.e. 50/50 shared custody).

Yes the mothers were happy to 'facilitate' contact but their starting position was never 50/50 and and the default assumption was 'a child's place is with the mother' (I have actually heard this phrase uttered on more then a few occasions). The men concerned were engaged fathers prior to separation and wanted to remain so, they sought accommodation in the neighbourhood so they could do school runs, all the extra curricular activities and generally 'be there'.

I don't buy the "child's place is with a mother" point and as someone whose DH was a SAHD and is still the primary childcare person, I think it's bollocks. Having said that, I do think in most relationships the women does tend to take on a lot more (even in mine - DH might spend more hours physically looking after the DC, but I still do a much higher proportion of the thinking, organising, planning, facilitating) so I understand why this is instinctive.

I've also met a couple of men in this situation who, down the line, have admitted that actually, 50/50 was much harder than they expected. To give them their due, the two men who have said this to me have both said they genuinely believed they were doing 50/50 so didn't understand their ex's initial reluctance until suddenly they had to make sure school uniforms were clean and school lunches were sorted etc. Chatting to a dad at one of DS' activities recently and I got the distinct impression that he was seriously pissed off becuase he had the DC during the holiday and therefore had to sort out their holiday club. But... he did it. So I'll take that as a win for 50/50 care!

I didn’t say it happens all the time I said it happens more than people believe, even if they don’t physically stop contact, they are resentful that their ex is around and wish they wouldn’t bother. Without fail when I post on these groups about DCs father not being around I get told I should be thankful he’s not, whilst I’m not suggesting it happens all the time I do believe a lot of women don’t want their exes around for selfish reasons.

Without fail when I post on these groups about DCs father not being around I get told I should be thankful he’s not, whilst I’m not suggesting it happens all the time I do believe a lot of women don’t want their exes around for selfish reasons.

I can, off the top of my head, think of 4 women I know fairly well who probably wish their exes would just disappear because it would genuinely be easier for their children who, instead, spend their lives being disappointed in their useless fathers.

But I stand by the earlier point - forums are like real life groups. You have to find one that works for you and perhaps the ones you're on aren't that helpful. MN's lone parents pages would probably be a much better and more supportive place.

It’s a sliding scale though.

there’s mums who don’t want the dad involved at all. There’s mums who “facilitate contact”, there’s mums who parent 50:50.

but what about who makes the decisions? Which school? Which extra curricular activities? Vaccination? School ski trip? holidays? Discipline, which GCSE subjects?

it’s hard to co-parent and have both involved in the decision making. It’s a lot of contact with someone you probably don’t get on with, and potential to disagree.

so while “involved parenting” can be lots of contact, paying cm etc, many nrp are still not included in the decision making processes. Some, as is our experience, are actively excluded. We were actually not told about dsd’s long term medication despite having her every f-m. Dh had to get a solicitors letter to force the GP to speak to him so we knew for emergencies.

on the scale while I think many would want the nrp involved as in contact, how many want to be having to pick up the phone to discuss a GP appointment, conversations about which schools are suitable etc. if you live with someone this is part of general conversation, it’s much more of an effort if you live apart.

Do they tell other women that because their exes are useless they should be grateful?

@Lastnamedidntstick if a parent did not tell ANYONE who was looking after their child about long term medication needs, I'd consider that abuse and something social services should be involved in - we had a friend's child here for a sleepover and we were told about long term medication. For obvious reasons. And if it is happening to your DSD, then absolutely, this is a serious and terrible issue.

I've never once said none of this happens. I just dispute this idea that it happens a LOT. I know lots of women who would find things easier without an ex in the picture (for legitimate and not legitimate reasons) but I continue to be resist this idea that "most women" just don't want the ex around. And, to go back to the OP's original point, it is THIS that I dispute: So is it any wonder many men don’t bother when women make it clear they would prefer it if they weren’t around? this idea that women just don't want the men around and therefore men aren't.

OP - I have said, more than once, that if you're on forums where people are making these sorts of comments, you should find better forums (and suggested MN). A few other people have said that people saying this are insensitive or a bit silly.

But it doesn't change the fact that no, most women do NOT wish their exes were not involved. And also, NO, it is not the fault of women then men then decide not to bother.

Many women wish their exes were easier to co-parent with. Some absolutely would rather their exes would disappear than continue to be poor, unreliable parents to their DC. the bulk just get on with it and find a balance that works, mostly, for them, their ex and their DC.

OP I really feel for you here I feel like sometimes posters on here can be very nasty or because something isn't the way they've experienced it then they can make you feel like it's wrong.

I already posted my take on it but I know that there are 100s of different dynamics...some dad's are deadbeats and that's their issue, some dads are great and want to see their kids more and mums stop them, some make it work, some parents either one are both are selfish or selfless - it's unique to everyone but I don't think you should be piled on or scoffed at just because you've had this experience and it's different to the majority or significant minority or whatever it is.

I actually came off mumsnet for a while because I got an absolute tanking for giving my view as the dreaded 'younger woman with an older man' and was absolutely ripped to shreds.

totally understand where you are coming from in this thread x

Get with reality. Both 'wishing' someone away or 'wishing' them to step up will bring zero results.

If a man intends to be an involved parent he will. Many (most) don't because they are just too selfish and don't want to.

And if child maintenance were off the table how many men would actually want 50/50 and all that involves?

I'm not in this situation but I do work with children who often are. Being repeatedly let down, shown no care/interest etc can be very damaging to children, their self worth / self belief / resilience etc and sometimes it is better that they have one stable parent rather than 2 parents with 1 being unreliable towards their children.
My ex bil was treated like this by his parents. When DN was born he gave her the ultimatum that she couldn't be in and out of her life. She did it twice and he drew the line and went NC. Couldn't see his DD being treated as he was.

There is no doubt parenting on your own is easier than having a dysfunctional other parent.
Having said that mine is now engaging in decisions after years of just doing nothing. I find this frustrating as for 10 yrs he left it all to me and then criticised my decisions. For the DCS it is better - much much better. He now answers random e mails from school, gives permission for stuff but forgets to tell me!

So i get the comments it is easier on your own - it is in some ways but for my DCs havng 2 engaged parents is def better and they have noticed