To think parents who let their kids 'play out' are just completely abdicating responsibility for their kids' behaviour?

[MaybeIWillFuckOffThen]

We have a little walled playground near our house - little climbing frame, slide, stepping stones, toddler swing, very clearly aimed at a young primary/pre-school audience.

It's currently being completely taken over by a huge group of 10-12 preteen/early teen boys playing very rough games of football with real leather footballs. The bang the balls off the walls and hoof them in the air so they go careering everywhere at speed, they run around roughly after the ball pushing and shoving each other and getting in other people's personal space, they fight and shout aggressively and swear. Not a parent in sight of course so no-one to appeal to to get them to moderate their behaviour/find a more suitable venue (like say the massive park 5 minutes walk away). I've had a word now and again but generally just get mutinous stares and/or backchat. I can't really take my kids (2 and 6) there to play any more as it isn't safe for them and the atmosphere is so aggressive.

Why do people just turn their kids out of doors with no idea where they're going/what they're doing? It makes it impossible for other parents - either they have to tell your kid off for you (immediately in the wrong) or they simply have to either put up with inappropriate, loutish behaviour or give way to it and leave.

When they're mature enough to use it responsibly. Mileage may vary depending on individual child and how good they are at remembering the values you've taught them when en masse with their mates. I'm pretty certain the one who told me to fuck off's mum would be appalled that he would have said that to another adult. But obviously his urge to play billy big balls overcame the values he'd been taught, ergo, he is not yet old enough to be trusted to play out.

I like your point about hockey in a restaurant op. It's a valid comparison. A toddler play park should be exactly that. A play park for toddlers. It seems to be often viewed as a free for all area in a way unlike anything else. Adults doing pt for example seem ti find it a perfectly acceptable place to tie their ropes to. We should all be teaching our children that it is a play park for toddlers and that's it. In the same way that people know that you don't go in to the walled gardens etc to play football.

Don’t be so sure the parents would be horrified at the “fuck off” you received. They’d probably say the same to you themselves. That’s what parents are like these days. I know a teacher who phoned a Y7 parent out of concern that no maths homework was ever done, child was falling behind in maths, child not engaging with help - parent told teacher to fuck off.

There’s a lot of parents though who wouldn’t have a big problem with their 8/9/10 year old child “running all over the place” and “playing between the equipment” at a kids playground, even if they were there supervising.

@GoodChat
"Because the parents aren't allowing it. They're just not aware."

Why aren't parents aware? Don't parents have conversations with their pre teens as to where they spend their time out and with who? I always did and still do with mine, because it's good to know and also nice to show an interest in their lives.

All the YABU voters, perhaps are parents of similar children? 😛

Nothing wrong with kids playing out, it's nice to see, but the older kids should be somewhere more appropriate to kick the ball about.

Teenagers play football in park shocker. FGS it’s the park not a crack den, perfectly acceptable place for kids their age to be.

Do you expect the parents to go with them OP when they’re teenagers?

What are they doing that is intimidating other than playing football in the way children their age do?

Your kids are 2 and 6 so presumably you’d supervise them at the park - I don’t understand why you can’t go?

I have to stay I can’t stand parents who are still in the ‘small child’ bubble and think every space is reserved for the little darlings. Where are teenagers supposed to go? They’re outdoors, they’ve stayed local, they’re not drinking or doing anything dodgy. Nothing to see here!

As I say, mine being girls I anticipate a bit less of the aggressive games of football. As i say I don't think your avg 10yo needs escorting everywhere they go - but if you know your child is off to play footie with their mates in a children's playpark, that is a situation that needs supervising - not for the safety of the precious darling tweens, but for the safety/convenience of everyone else.

Like right now my 6yo is given to screaming her head off at a moments' notice. So I'm there to tell her to keep it down a bit as not everyone wants their eardrums split. Hopefully as she grows up this reinforcement of what is acceptable behaviour in public will start to have some effect on how she moderates her own behaviour, rather than me just chuck her onto the street to scream the odds and irritate people everywhere she goes, or get a flea in her ear from a random stranger about it. I think laying that groundwork of consideration for others is part of my job, not something she should just pick up as she goes along via negative reactions from strangers.

Tbh it sounds like it's become a situation where they know that when you turn up to the park you will moan at them. They are hostile to you, you are hostile to them. They likely don't see you as a mum of a little kid at the park any more but as "that lady that always has a go at us". They already have their backs up when they see you.

Have you tried actually going over and chatting to them in a friendly manner? Have you asked them if they can play at the big park or at the area with benches? And if not then why not? Have you explained that they seem massive and scary to the little ones and, while you know they can't help that, it would be a big favour to play elsewhere for a bit? Try building a bit of a rapport with them and they will probably be more helpful and respectful in return.

And they're not aware because they're not supervising. Ergo abdication.

I think YANBU. Kids that age tend to be arseholes (I was) and their parents are fully aware of this and should tell them not to be booting a leather ball around the toddler play area. There are plenty of other places.

The preteens here are amazing at scaling the 4 meter fence to get into the AstroTurf pitches for free. If they tried it on in the playground they would get their arses handed to them by the first angry dad whose toddler got hit by the ball. They feel very comfortable brushing off one mum who can easily be physically driven out of the space.

Let me know how your kids get on with their peers when they are 10-12 and having you down supervising them at the park each time they are out with their friends.

It will soon turn into 'total lockdown' because they won't be invited anywhere with their mum trailing along.

You want parents of 12 year olds to sit on a bench watching them '? Will you do this with your own children just follow them about the park .

Hmm. I take it from your response you don’t want any more advice from me so I won’t bother.

Well yes, to be fair, you're right they should be showing an interest and asking these questions.

I know it’s annoying for you in the short term, but you can take your children further afield presumably. Is there a playground in the park 5 mins away?

The reason they like playing football in an enclosed space where the ball bounces, is because it means they’re not spending half their time retrieving the ball. What you’re hearing and seeing just sounds like a normal football game.

Footballs aren’t made of real leather anymore. They’re all synthetic and much lighter than old leather ones. The real leather balls of yesteryear have been implicated in some former players’ brain damage sustained from heading the ball.

When your children are older you’ll hopefully appreciate the benefits to them of playing out rather than being stuck in front of a screen.

The children you are talking about (you originally said 10-12) are at the age when they are becoming more independent prior to going to secondary school, probably in September, maybe some of them there already? Parents accompanying everywhere and supervising just doesn’t happen routinely at that age. Many children of similar ages are getting themselves to school and back, going into town etc. on public transport or walking on their own/in groups. Constant supervision is neither desirable or possible at that age.

My god how embarrassing would this be for a teenager! It’s important to let kids that age get independence and be away from the confines of home. Especially when they were cooped up for so long. If that slightly inconvenient to a woman who thinks her kids should have the run of the park then tough shit I’m afraid. Your 2yo’s need to play on a climbing frame alone doesn’t trump their right to independence

Actually I have a 2 yo and I always make very sure she doesn't bash small babies at soft play/baby groups - because i'm not a dickhead and I don't think the boundaries of what is acceptable move with my own child's preferences! So yes I'm that parent who is by my 2yo's side in the soft play - because she's 2 and very sturdy, there are smaller kids around and she doesn't know her own strength. It's on me to make sure she doesn't hurt or inconvenience smaller children.

You are clearly of the 'cup of tea and FB while your 3yo pushes over crawlers' school of which one sees so much at softplays, and one of the reasons I spend very little time at them. My 6yo can now be trusted to be considerate so she runs off into the big kids area and has a whale of a time all by herself, before anyone accuses me of being a 'crazy mother' whose kids will never have any independence or friends again. It's just what's age appropriate.

Instead of whipping yourself up into a rage as you clearly have been doing by the tone of your posts, why don't you a) proactively report the issue to the council and ask them to put up no ball game signs if the area really is that unsuitable (you could argue they are damaging the wall), or b) go to the big park yourself if it's "only" five minutes away.

As PP have said, 10-12 is a really tricky age and it maybe the boys feel safer there than at the big park with bigger teens playing football, or their parents have said it's too far for them to go alone to, seeing as they are relatively young still. As for parental responsibility, kids these days are stifled enough – it's good for them to have some freedom. They're just being kids.

Young teenagers need to play out without parents hovering constantly. I have found that if I have young children with me, a friendly (and make sure it's FRIENDLY) word of caution to the older lads to "watch out for the wee ones" has been respected. If you go at them with all guns blazing, they will return fire. If you show them respect, they will will respect you too. Or maybe that's just where I live.

It doesn't sound like they should be playing in an area designed for little kids. They certainly shouldn't be giving you cheek for pointing that out either.

I'd certainly consider contacting thr council to see if there's anything they can do. It needs an adult other than you to sort this.

I don't know whether playing out at that age is abdicating responsibility though. Sometimes your kids behave very differently to how you would expect when they're out of sight. They may well have given their parents no indication that they are behaving like this.

"Rough games with leather footballs". Is this an extract from a letter to The Times in 1962?

I kind of get it op. When I was a teenager my parents were really weird about us “playing out”. We could go to someone’s house, cinema whatever, but they really didn’t like us just going out to “hang around in the street” as they put it.

i remember when I was about 13 loads of people at school would hang around in a wee play park near the school and I was never allowed to go because “the residents there will hate groups of teens in the park and I don’t want you involved”

so yeah I do see your point because my parents took your view and I understand it now I’m an adult.

but god it was SHITE when I was 13

Or sometimes grown men playing football! The pitch round here that is connected to a school just seems to have men playing on it while the kids are relegated to the play park that has a smaller ‘pitch’ on the concrete

Exactly this

It would be very odd for parents of kids that age to be supervising them outside