To think DS shouldn’t have fought back?

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DS is in year 2. Had a call from the headteacher today to say him and friend got into a fight with two other boys. Apparently some two way teasing that escalated (“im better than you at this game, no you’re not” sort of argument). The other boys hit first, but DS and friend retaliated, punching and kicking and turned into a proper fight between the four of them. All boys are being punished, school are saying DS shouldn’t have retaliated. I agree with this.

DH disagrees, and says he didn’t start the physical fight, but given the other boys hit first he was fine to fight back.

We need to talk to him about this and DH and I are not on same page. AIBU am to say he must not hit or punch back if he can safely walk away and tell a teacher? Especially at age 7 in a school playground?

I think the calculation about when to fight back and when not to is pretty complex and difficult to simplify for a 7 year old.

In general I agree that not hitting back can make you a target in an environment like a school. But in this case, depending on what was said and whether the other boy just used it as an excuse to hit or whether it was fairly egregious and had him acting unusually poorly, that might not be the case.

Then there’s the issue of going too far and it moving from self-defense to you being the attacker. It’s not really that fine a line, you don’t have to stick to no more than the initiator did, but once the adrenaline’s running it can be hard to stop. And, of course, the issue of not necessarily being able to win a fight. Even if you didn’t start it, you have the moral high ground and you’re worried about being picked on in the future, it might still be more sensible to high tail it out of there.

It’s worth pointing all this out to him if he’s going to fight, even though it’s not reasonable to expect him to be able to actually put it all into practice right now.

For now though, I’d be inclined to brush over whether the fighting was a good decision and accept it was a decision he made in difficult circumstances. That the school didn’t like it but you understand why he might have thought he should. And concentrate on the verbal altercation that he appeared to have started and whether or not that was the sort of behaviour you want from him.

In life you fight back or you become a doormat/punch bag.

I was taught to never start a fight but always finish one. Good lesson to learn.

My advice would be you hit back once, then you run away and tell an adult. You don't hit more than once.

You don't want him to be walked all over but at the same time this can escalate very quickly and he might start thinking violence is OK if someone else starts it... so if he coaxes/ teases someone until they hit him... then what?

It gets complicated.

If someone hits him on the arm and he pummels them to the ground that's not OK... so how do you teach that?

Absolutely.

This is usually what they teach if you do any kind of self defence training as well.

Being mugged is very different to a school playground situation.

Definitely hit back, agree with DH

I've been thinking about this overnight.

If I said to my DDs to hit back, they'd just get pulverised. At full height one is 5ft2 and the other is just shy of 5ft.

Hit back if needed so you can get away, but then run and call for help.

For a normal person walking alone, unarmed, held up at knife point for their phone/ purse, trying to fight back might not end well for that person. It's sensible advice.

Unless you have some kind of martial arts or self defence training, or are very large and strong, you are at much greater risk of being stabbed or killed if you fight back than if you don't.

It sounds like you've experienced it and I'm sorry for that and glad you got away.

But this is the general advice given to unarmed members of the pubic, to minimise the risk of getting hurt. Your purse isn't as important as your life.

The advice is to throw your stuff as far as you can in the other direction, so that they have to go and get it and you can escape.

teach your children to always walk away if they can. It is common sense. They are 7. In 5 years time, the other guy might have a knife. If you cant get away, or are getting hit repeatedly, obviously its different, but first response should ALWAYS be try to get away

My advice would be you hit back once, then you run away and tell an adult. You don't hit more than once.

This advice is great if you hit them hard enough to allow you to get away.

I haven't voted.

I think you should stand up for yourself and defend yourself against bullies or you will become a doormat.

This is not the same as joining in a tit-for-tat argument and then getting into a fight.

There is a difference between telling someone to stop speaking to you like that, that it won't be tolerated to calling names back. There is a difference between one preemptive strike to allow you to flee and start a fight by continuing to hit and kick, there is a difference between doing the minimum after being hit first in order to allow you to flee and again hitting and continuing a fight. The latter in all of these, you are doing the same as the bully and lowering yourself to their crappy standards, you are also losing control. the former you are standing up for yourself, protecting yourself and keeping it proportionate without taking it any further than is necessary.

There is a difference not only morally but legally.

Many adults struggle with the difference a child of that age will struggle too.

My kids did come across stuff like this at school and got into trouble too. I would take it with each occurrence to try and help them understand how it could have been handled better if it were to happen again. Yes I tell them to stand up for themselves but I know they will get it wrong sometimes, it can be hard as each situation will be unique its not that simple because many think hitting back can equate to fighting back when it's not that simple and in the sense of self-defence it could lead you into getting into trouble as you could go too far to call it that.

Teach them to walk away and tell a teacher - this will be in line with the school behaviour policy and will prevent them from being punished. If you teach them to hit back, you also have to teach them to accept the schools punishment for fighting with good grace - no arguing with the teacher that ‘Dad told me to do it!’.

My kids have been taught to walk away if they can and never throw the first punch....however they should definitely fight back once someone starts on them!
I just can't imagine them standing there being beaten up and worrying that I've told them not to hit another child.......screw that, if they've gone for you they are fair game in my opinion.

I agree with your DH that hitting back is fine when you're attacked/bullied.

BUT... Your child wasn't being attacked or bullied. Your child was arguing and then had a fight with other kids. I'm sure all three of the other kids have told their parents they didn't hit first, to soften the potential telling-off. You can't honestly know who hit first and how much involvement your son had.
As an example, my DS has SEN. The bullies in his class know how to push his buttons and will follow him, tease him, provoke him until he gets physical first. He's taught never to do that, but I can't fault the kid for being backed into a corner by horrible bullies and doing what he can to make it stop. The school certainly won't do fuck all to help him.

''@Mariposista · Yesterday 19:55
Your son should have gone and found an adult and used his words.''

Are you for real?

If someone is attacking/hitting you, do you really think that just saying ''hold it there mate, let me go and find a responsible adult to sort this out'' is going to work?

What a lot of nonsense.

He did what he had to do to protect himself and to stand up to bullies.

I with your husband. I think is fine for schools to enforce rules about fighting whilst parents teaching their children to stand up for them selves. This helps children understand that fighting is not acceptable but one needs to stand up for them themselves.

I'm with your DH too. Never ever start a physical fight or inflict violence on someone unless they attack you first. It is very important that you do then hit back and hard, to prevent a lifetime's bullying. Shouldn't be true but is.

Totally with this. If your DS doesn’t hit back he will be bullied for ever more.

So what “intelligent” words should this school girl have used with her attacker?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11656103/Disturbing-moment-Scottish-schoolgirl-repeatedly-punched-kicked-head-fellow-pupil.html

No, I'm with you.

Ah but @AliceMcK the poor little violent thug girl doing the head booting just must have a reason for her actions, we of course have to have a chat with her and make sure she's alright as a priority....

There is no right or wrong though and different circumstances mean different responses.

with the bullying though and fighting back - those agreeing with the DH are saying if you are bullied it is ok to fight back and hit so you are no longer bullied. But bullying isn’t just physical it is often teasing and verbal abuse. Which by all accounts the OP DS did say something which caused the hitting. And then he hit back. Which is why all of them are being punished. The belief that things have to be physical for it to be abuse is why so many are trapped in awful relationships.

Then you have to accept that your advice to a young child means they may end up with a conviction if they use this advice in adulthood. Send defence does not equal retaliation.

And the other child won't know not to do it again, they will just move on to someone else, or they may, when older, tool up.

It solves nothing for anybody, it just makes it worse.

I think it’s hugely unhelpful to the staff supervising primary aged children at lunch time to instruct them to punch/hit back. Tell them to tell an adult instead.

I’ve literally never had this conversation with my kids. I find it peculiar that it even comes up. My only advice about violence/aggression is be careful who you make angry as you get older as lots of people carry knives. So even if you think you’re going to have a fist fight it can get serious very quickly. So I guess my advice is to keep your head down and don’t antagonise people.

There is a big difference between two 7 year old having a scrap and teenagers/adults.

By the time a child is grown they are able to make better judgements as to likelihood of serious harm to either party; make judgements as to whether running is an option; can they or anyone else around help de-escalate the situation etc.

But at 7 years old, if he doesn't fight back then he leaves himself looking like a soft target.

And i am not saying self defence is the same as retaliation at all. There is a massive legal difference for a start.