To think DS shouldn’t have fought back?

[Namechange12908]

DS is in year 2. Had a call from the headteacher today to say him and friend got into a fight with two other boys. Apparently some two way teasing that escalated (“im better than you at this game, no you’re not” sort of argument). The other boys hit first, but DS and friend retaliated, punching and kicking and turned into a proper fight between the four of them. All boys are being punished, school are saying DS shouldn’t have retaliated. I agree with this.

DH disagrees, and says he didn’t start the physical fight, but given the other boys hit first he was fine to fight back.

We need to talk to him about this and DH and I are not on same page. AIBU am to say he must not hit or punch back if he can safely walk away and tell a teacher? Especially at age 7 in a school playground?

Rather than focusing on the fight, I would discuss with your son how he could have de-escalated the situation before it got physical. It's a really important skill to avoid trouble in the future. Don't give him into trouble, leave that to school. You just talk through it and help him think of ways to do it better next time

I agree with your husband. Never be the one to hit out or kick out first but damn right you hit them back. Otherwise they could become an easy target.

That didn't happen.

"I’m going to try to get to bottom of how what seemed friendly banter escalated to an argument that resulted in violence."

That's what needs exploring. Many fights on nights out start from nothing. The start of the match/night and the banter is friendly, by the end someone has had serious damage done to them. As women we don't retaliate to verbal stuff, to protect our selves. Men aren't necessarily in any less danger, as we read daily in the news. There's a lot of dickheads on nights out and you've got to learn to remove yourself from their company.

I'm another one who told my kids that it was not okay to start a fight, but that they completely had my backing to defend themselves. I didn't want them to feel that they weren't allowed to do so.

Eldest used to get grief on the way home from (secondary) school from some dickheads who would kick the back of his feet, shove him etc. I suggested he crossed the road to get away from them, ignore it if it was low level and so on. He said it eventually stopped when he turned round and 'punched one of them really hard in the arm'. I did say that I would not have advised that course of action, but ultimately, that was what stopped it.

Year 2 is a bit different, they are all so young, but there are kids who will hit out. The other option I gave mine at primary was to shout really loudly about what was happening 'Ow! Don't hit me, get off!' etc as that was a way to draw attention of teachers to what was going on without getting caught hitting back and being accused of starting the fight.

If you’re hit you hit back.

From personal experience, I have to agree with a PP poster who said that bullies rarely respond to 'be kind' interventions, but do quickly get the message when they get swift wallop back. I tell my kids that if anyone hits them, hit them back harder.

Never hit first

Always stand up for yourself if you are assaulted.

Need to fight back op. I've always told ds that I will have his back if he does this but he must not start things.

His karate master tells the class exactly the same thing. He says he will go to any of their schools & back them up too.

Primary schools have a ridiculous view on these things. I'm the original school swot but I've crossed swords with the headteacher about this.

He's at primary but he'll be in secondary with the same kids too. He needs to defend himself otherwise he'll be at risk of a school lifetime of being started on & running to find a teacher.

I agree with your husband.
As long as you don't hit first you would be crazy not to fight back and stand up for yourself 🤷‍♀️

You don’t hit first. However defending yourself is acceptable.
What about karate? - he will learn how to be disciplined, But also self defence - not just hitting out. Never know when that might be helpful.

If you go along with your dh you are giving the green light to violence and aggression in a school. The argument that it is self defence does not hold water when there are adults around to help. Your ds needs to learn that walking away and seeking help is what people do at school.

I don't like encouraging violence but I've told my kids to hit back. My school has a shit response to bullying, lots of victim blaming and restorative chats where they place equal blame. My poor son was bullied for years before he hit back, kid stopped it after he was knocked on hiss arse.

For boys it’s not ok to seem weak. And this definitely increases as they get older,
Its similar for Girls But a slightly different dynamic

Lizzyb regardless of your view or whether you have your son's back, your ds will suffer the consequences at school because schools will not sanction this eye for an eye bullshit.

I'm shocked by the responses on here. I still don't think you're BU in the slightest.

No wonder our society is in so much trouble!

There's all sorts of nuances to these things. You can't do a blanket 'fight back'. It sounds like your ds was winding them up a bit and then they snapped. They aren't bullies that have been digging him around.
He had other options. Self defense, sure if he is being cornered or is in danger, but this was retaliation and did nothing but escalate it. Even shouting 'leave me alone' or 'oi!' or 'piss off' (7 year olds version) is better than smacking back sometimes. Not being able to back away from fights is how serious injuries occur, and you can do so clearly, firmly and calmly without being a walkover.

Never start something, but if someone brings the fight to you, absolutely finish it.

Not being able to back away from fights is how serious injuries occur, and you can do so clearly, firmly and calmly without being a walkover.

I disagree.

How do you walk away 'clearly, firmly and calmly without being a walkover' when somebody is hitting you?

You either fight back or are branded 'a pussy' and likely the future choice of the bully who wants a compliant victim.

so your DS started the verbal sparring which led to physical fighting and he then retaliated.

yes he should be punished because he was the initiator by starting it. Is banter truly ever friendly

If a woman came up to me in the street and pushed or struck me, I wouldn't hit back, no. I would put distance between us and calm her down. I'd never just go into a knock-down drag-out fight, brawling on the pavement. I just don't even understand that thinking.

I think "hit back" is very subjective, and difficult to explain what is acceptable, particularly to a young child.

Hit back as in self defence (minimum violence required to escape to safety) is fine. Hit back as in punching someone who pushed you isn't fine.

I'd say to your child that you understand why he did it and won't be giving any additional punishment at home, but then talk through what other options he had - particularly the choice of walking away while it was still verbal.

Without wanting to sound totally dramatic, that could end up being for a jury to decide (not for a year 2 child though, obviously).

Have any of you heard about the very real incidents of 'one punch' deaths/serious brain injury?! Some of those stories involve people who were defending themselves. They ended up in prison.

Have you also never heard about lads who fought back and ended up badly beaten or stabbed?

What if a girl or a woman hits your boys? Are they allowed to hit back then?

Honestly, my gut is definitely in the 'hit back' camp, especially when it comes to bullies, but my head isn't.

absolutely this

It's tricky in an ideal world they'd walk away and tell an adult.
However I'm with your DH on this one - bullies look for the weaker no confidence children - and then it can be relentless.
If he had walked away all the other boys would have remembered it. Now he fought back they will think twice.
I took both of my children to kick boxing mainly for the physical confidence it gave them.
I would also not tolerate the school treating them all the same.
Speak to DS - he did the right thing and need to know you will support him to stand up for himself.

With a son who was bullied - and very capable of hitting back but decided he at the age of 8 did not want to be a violent person - we had to send him to therapy to learn how to create his own sense of authority so he was not bullied in the first place. And it was worthwhile - expect the reality is this will come up again and again for you - hitting back defines his position in the group and less likely to be hit again. In high school my son ended up hitting back as he realised it was the only way unfort - kids don’t always see reason their brains aren’t developed enough but they know what pain and fear is.