To think DS shouldn’t have fought back?

[Namechange12908]

DS is in year 2. Had a call from the headteacher today to say him and friend got into a fight with two other boys. Apparently some two way teasing that escalated (“im better than you at this game, no you’re not” sort of argument). The other boys hit first, but DS and friend retaliated, punching and kicking and turned into a proper fight between the four of them. All boys are being punished, school are saying DS shouldn’t have retaliated. I agree with this.

DH disagrees, and says he didn’t start the physical fight, but given the other boys hit first he was fine to fight back.

We need to talk to him about this and DH and I are not on same page. AIBU am to say he must not hit or punch back if he can safely walk away and tell a teacher? Especially at age 7 in a school playground?

@Onnabugeisha I have absolutely taught my kids that they should hand over their phone or whatever if they get mugged. Trying to fight back puts them at a very real risk of being stabbed.
If a mugger grabbed me by the throat and demanded my bag or my phone I'd bloody well give it to them.
If someone grabbed me by the throat and seemed hell bent on trying to strangle and kill me then I'd fight back.
Two quite different situations.

Yes , I have been push and pulled about for days, been verbally abused and when the girl thought she’d be a smart arse and hit me i thumped her back just as hard. That was the last of the problems with her.

my cousin also was terribly bullied, he eventually cracked and battered the bully black and blue, never had another bit of bother.

are you telling me as an adult you wouldn’t defend yourself against someone hitting you? I would never allow someone to hit me without defending myself. I’m not a pushover. Madness to allow someone else to hit you without protecting yourself,

Or when the school gets told your child gets the 'well you need to make sure you stay away from Timmy if he's hitting you then, are you sure you're not doing something, if he is hitting you, you need to be kind and understand him'

Hitting back makes you just as pathetic as the person that hit first.

Violence is for those who lack the intelligence to fight with their words.

Just to add I kick box with my kids but tell them to NEVER hit back if someone hits them at school.

if someone hit your son, he should ABSOLUTELY hit back.

We raise our kids to understand that they better NEVER start a fight of be bullies or there will be hell to pay. But if anyone lays a finger on them, they understand they have our full blessing to rock that kid's shit. To be completely honest, I'd probably be a bit disappointed in my son to learn that he got hit by someone and just "took it".

Interesting to see how confused people are between defence and retaliation. How on earth children are supposed to learn when the adults don't even know.

The term is reasonable force to defend yourself.

Battering back or "ending it" and other such suggestions would not come under the term reasonable. That's you letting your anger dictate your actions, rather than your safety.

I'm with your husband. Took my eldest years to learn to fight back. Once he did the bullying stopped. My youngest is more likely to cause a fight. That I can punish and we now know how to handle it. Was much tougher watching my eldest in tears when he was hurt and school did nothing.

I see no problem with retaliation personally. The other child will know not to do it again.

I see no problem with retaliation personally. The other child will know not to do it again.

Do you not feel bad that you are talking about a young child? You're advocating teaching a child a lesson through violence. I thought we were past the stage where people thought hitting / beating children was ok. Children who use violence need to be taught better ways to manage their emotions. They do not need to be taught yet more violence.

I'm really quite shocked at how many fully grown adults are advocating the use of unreasonable force against a child who has lashed out once. Not as a pattern of behaviour, or as part of ongoing bullying, but a one-off loss of temper. Too many adults here are positively gleeful at the idea of the small child being battered, and that is sickening.

I voted YABU. I've spent nearly a year telling my son to walk away/tell a teacher whenever this kid in his class picked on him, pushed him or punched him and have reported problems to the school repeatedly. A few months ago, after getting so fed up of the school doing fuck all, I suggested he defend himself next time. He does karate so my son blocked and punched the kid back, after being punched twice. Not a peep out of the bully kid since.

Unfortunately in my experience it is often necessary as so many schools have their heads in the sand when it comes to dealing with bullies.

From someone who is not from the UK bloody hell this thread gives some insight into your culture.

Firstly, everyone leaping to the idea of an innocent child being set upon by a bully, even though this is not what happened here.

Than the glorification of violence. Oh what a hero I am I knocked someone’s teeth out. Unbelievable. So do you think that person just instantly turned into a passive little rule abider or did they learn to hit harder the first time?

Life is not a Hollywood movie. You teach your kid ‘to hit back harder’ they don’t get to walk away with everyone applauding. More often than not the other person hits back even harder. Or his mates do. Or someone gets out a knife.

Encouraging and normalising violence creates a violent society.

So if someone came up and smacked you and you were told to just stand there and do nothing what would you do ? Ridiculous that you would even suggest you let your child allow himself to be attacked and do nothing.

What's he going to do when he's out there all grown up in the real world ? Just stand there and get battered? Get a grip of yourself

@JemimaTiggywinkles Battered?! I think you're overreaching there. We are talking about 7 year olds, im sure it was more of a small scrap than a battering. It's not OPs sons job to help this other child "regulate his emotions".

Sounds like your son can handle himself well already. Expecting him to act like a big girls blouse is utterly ridiculous and I'm glad he has no intention of being one.

I honestly wonder how many people on this thread have ever been in a fight - all this 'even as an adult I'd hit back and make sure to finish it' bullshit sounds tough and all but if the other person is bigger and stronger than you, you don't get a choice to finish it.

I've literally been in this situation - I was angrily shoved, I punched him back harder on instinct and adrenaline (as advised be everyone here), he responded not by magically learning the error of his ways, but by getting more pissed off and punching me in the face even harder - at which point my brain caught up and realised given our sizes if we kept this up I'd be the one seriously injured/dead not him and I ran the fuck away. Hitting back someone I couldn't win against was monumentally stupid and could have ended up with me dead instead of just bruised with broken glasses.

A one off incident like this, I'd tell my kids it's better not to escalate if they think they can get away safely (how likely is it the friend would have tried to continue to fight if he'd walked?). If it happens more than once and it seems like a bullying situation then if they thought they can win against the bully then hitting back might work, but if the bully is just going to smash them up its terrible advice.

I’ve been in several fights- always started by someone else. It’s true you can’t always win, but not fighting back would have ended worse in the situations I was in.

Btw, hardly anyone has said hit back harder. Most of us have said defend yourself by hitting back using proportionate force. Responding to a shove by a bigger opponent by punching him even harder isn’t what I and others have advised, so not “everyone.” It’s also wise to avoid it if you can (ie run away), but you can’t always avoid someone shoving or hitting you with intent to carry on using you as a punching bag (as in the bully in the OP) or worse (as in examples in the thread) and sometimes you have to incapacitate the attacker in order to have a chance to successfully run away.

Unfortunately IME schools always punish for retaliation and if the retaliation ends up being the worst offence it seems to overshadow whatever happened in the beginning. I don't necessarily disagree with your DH but having had a DS go through school who never started anything but made sure to finish it the next 11 school years could be really hard to get through for DS (and you, every time that call comes from the school).

Reward your son every time he hits back and punish every time he starts it.

I always taught my kids that you do not hit first, but if someone hits you then hit back!

Seriously, why would you expect your child to just stand there and do nothing whilst they are being hit??

I tell my kids never to start fights but to finish them. I understand why schools cannot condone hitting back but in the real world we can’t teach children to just lie down and take a beating and not defend themselves

I voted YABU. I've spent nearly a year telling my son to walk away/tell a teacher whenever this kid in his class picked on him, pushed him or punched him and have reported problems to the school repeatedly.

But this is a squabble between 4 friends over lego or some such. Not over persistent bullying. There's a huge difference.

I try and tell my kids I don't want you starting fights but if someone hits you you hit them back. Honestly growing up i was always told not to retaliate, walk away bla bla bla but its done me no favours in certain situations.

In school no - call a teacher

but they should not be punished

some children tease the victim until the victim responds physically - never put your hands on anyone else

however, self defence happened possibly in this case - so no they shouldn’t all get the same but if every child hit in school can you imagine the carnage?

Of course you hit back.

Never start it, never go over the top in the retaliation, but 100% hit back.

It's an important life lesson, don't let people walk over you.

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The school have to take that line really but in reality surely everyone thinks it's reasonable to hit back when attacked.