To think DS shouldn’t have fought back?

[Namechange12908]

DS is in year 2. Had a call from the headteacher today to say him and friend got into a fight with two other boys. Apparently some two way teasing that escalated (“im better than you at this game, no you’re not” sort of argument). The other boys hit first, but DS and friend retaliated, punching and kicking and turned into a proper fight between the four of them. All boys are being punished, school are saying DS shouldn’t have retaliated. I agree with this.

DH disagrees, and says he didn’t start the physical fight, but given the other boys hit first he was fine to fight back.

We need to talk to him about this and DH and I are not on same page. AIBU am to say he must not hit or punch back if he can safely walk away and tell a teacher? Especially at age 7 in a school playground?

My dd started martial arts for this exact reason OP. She was having trouble with at primary school with a couple of girls, one of whom could get physically aggressive. I started off advocating verbally telling the girl to cut it out and then walk away. But it didn’t solve the issue and school weren’t keen to dish out discipline as their “therapeutic” approach meant they had to sympathise with the offender and encourage her to be nicer (end result: failure).

ultimately the other girl stopped when my dd could defend herself efficiently.

My dd is now 12 and loves martial arts. She is small but mighty. I would certainly think twice before I picked a fight with her, and it makes me happy to think she presents with physical confidence. I hope she can carry that feeling through her teens and 20s.

I'm with your DH.
They need to defend themselves and try to make themselves know as not an easy target for bullies.

Same, this restorative justice rubbish needs to stop, why on earth should a victim of theft/robbery/violence/bullying have to sit and listen to why the perpetrator did it?
It just makes it a ridiculous 'oh bless you really need to feel for them that they have Jo other option in life than to do this'....

My kids know they can’t go around throwing hands, but they absolutely can defend themselves.

You can’t talk to or reason with someone who is violently attacking you. If you’d ever been attacked that way, you would know that.

Hitting back and self defence are two difference things. Hitting someone to defend yourself is fine, hitting back out of revenge with an eye for an eye mentality isn't.

Would you rather he curled up in a ball crying?! Of course you fight back if someone hits you

Defo fight back. Youd rather him be bullied??

DC was bullied in their new school, the school did absolutely nothing to help despite it being an ongoing issue.
Suddenly I was pulled into school to meet the head of year because DC had fought back - no sweetie, that’s not how it works.

If they couldn’t be arsed dealing with it in the early days I’ve no idea what made them think I’d be remotely interested in helping when my kid fought back - the mind boggles!

Sorry, but I’m with DH on this one

Yep, exactly this.

Just to counter the other stories - I was taught to walk away if at all possible and have never been bullied. Not in school, uni, work nor in a relationship. I learned early that violence begets violence and to stay far away from all those who advocate it, except when genuinely necessary in self defence. Same is true of my brother, who has never been in a physical fight in his 34 years.

I reiterate what I said earlier - you need to work with DS to recognise his other options in that moment.

The other side of this, of course, is that some people will see words as sufficient to justify violence too so it is best to stop with the "banter". Particularly when unwanted "banter" can be classed as bullying (which many posters here are saying makes it okay to hit).

DD was getting pushed around by a boy, she would tell him to stop, told her teachers etc etc. One day she smacked him in the mouth. That seemed to work pretty well. Problem is at this age they are still basically little animals in my view, it’s very much law of the jungle. I’m with your DH, other kids will know he’s not a soft touch.

I have zero tolerance on hitting but I have no problem with DD defending herself.

If a boy hits your son and he does not hot back, he gets hot again and again. He becomes a target for bullied..if you are hit nothing wrong with defending yourself and hitting back. I have told my son under no circumstances can he karate kick another person but he can punch back.

Yep dh is right

Your family member wasn't a child in primary school.

That's why I said secondary age and above you need to learn to pick your battles.

AIBU am to say he must not hit or punch back if he can safely walk away and tell a teacher? Especially at age 7 in a school playground?

How is he going to know it’s safe to walk away? I’ve not seen this ever end well. Usually someone trying to go off and snitch, gets tackled and the stuffing pounded out of them.

Of course, I went to a rough school. But still not sure this is the best advice because not even an adult is going to be able to accurately tell when it’s safe to walk away from an attacker.

Totally agree.

It’s sad how so many parents advocate for their young children to be violent.

There’s a difference between self defence and walking away and actual fighting.

Also, as a teacher, the vast majority of parents who tell their (not being bullied) kids to hit back tend to have kids who are way too quick to retaliate (ie there no way it is self defence and outside of school would be considered pretty aggressive).

We don't tend to get bullied kids fighting back because my school doesn't do the bullshit "restorative justice" crap. Serious, escalating sanctions and constant staff supervision are the only way to deal with bullying.

All of that said, my school does have a more severe sanction for the kid that hit first than the one who hit back (unless it was excessive retaliation).

Your son should have gone and found an adult and used his words. All the boys deserve punishment. They are in school to learn bot to behave like wild animals.

All boys are being punished, school are saying DS shouldn’t have retaliated. I agree with this

The school have to say this, they are the ones dealing with the fighting. They want you to discourage it, because its a lot harder to deal with when they are hoofing great gangly 11 year olds. 7yr olds are not renowned for their powers of compromise and negotiation, they do learn with a bit of help though

I’m with you OP, but there was another similar thread v recently about a much older child - exactly the same response as you’re getting.

I don’t understand why walk away/use your words isn’t the first port of call here, and I am ALL for standing up to bullies. I just don’t see how we can expect society not to contain considerable violence if we teach this kind of tit for tat crap to our kids.

Even as an adult, if someone assaults you normally running is safer as a response than getting into a physical fight with them.
I believe violence should only be used in extremis. Am honestly shocked to discover so many people think the opposite. But I guess, I’ll do me - and hope my kids don’t have to interact with their kids out in the world 🤔

This. I think if you're child feels in danger or has been subjected to bullying from the kid hitting and nothing has stopped it then ok hit back if there's no other choice. But otherwise the school will bring the house down on the child who threw the second punch as well as the one that started it. It's easy for me to say as my DCs haven't been bullied, but I've told them they need to walk away. One DC had to do it in yr7 after another child went for him. He walked off, the child followed and hit him from behind, but by then a teacher had been alerted by DCs friend's. It was horrible for DC but he got kudos from his friends and the teachers for not rising to to it and retaliating. And luckily there's been no repeat.

This.

There's also a difference between being bullied and a spat between friends that's got out of hand and a difference between being targeted for no reason and it happening because people are winding each other up.

@RachelSq

This is an extreme example but someone tells their kid to get their own back if someone hits them. Fast forward a few years to when they are a young adult. They are outside a night club and get in a drunken argument. Other person punches them. They hit back to 'settle the score'. Other person falls, cracks their head on the pavement and dies. Police ask witnesses "was it self defence?" Witnesses "No, he/she were angry because the other person it them". Their child has just ruined their life and the family of the person they hit lives because of this little bit of advice.

You don't start the fight, but you can end it.
Aslong as he didn't start it. It's every man for themselves .
Respect and kindness is one thing, but being able to stick up for yourself is just as important .

It’s sad how so many parents advocate for their young children to be violent.

Lots of parents are very damaged by being bullied themselves and can't see that there is another option. They see "punch someone who shoved you so they learn not to mess with you" and don't realise that if you follow that advice you become a violent person yourself. The type that most non-violent people want to stay away from.

Plus, in many cases, hitting back just escalates the violence and that can go very badly wrong very quickly indeed. If at all possible, walking away is much safer. Particularly if you can learn to recognise the signs that someone is getting angry and walk away before they get violent.