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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think DS shouldn’t have fought back?

224 replies

Namechange12908 · 06/02/2023 18:43

DS is in year 2. Had a call from the headteacher today to say him and friend got into a fight with two other boys. Apparently some two way teasing that escalated (“im better than you at this game, no you’re not” sort of argument). The other boys hit first, but DS and friend retaliated, punching and kicking and turned into a proper fight between the four of them. All boys are being punished, school are saying DS shouldn’t have retaliated. I agree with this.

DH disagrees, and says he didn’t start the physical fight, but given the other boys hit first he was fine to fight back.

We need to talk to him about this and DH and I are not on same page. AIBU am to say he must not hit or punch back if he can safely walk away and tell a teacher? Especially at age 7 in a school playground?

OP posts:
LittleMousewithcloggson · 06/02/2023 20:04

It sounds like your DS might have been the one starting it - by verbally upsetting the other child - and it was the other child actually fighting back.
In that case I would be talking to my child about what he actually said and if it was bullying.

JemimaTiggywinkles · 06/02/2023 20:05

You don't start the fight, but you can end it.

Try that in real (adult) life and you could end up in prison. Retaliation isn't self defence, and (rightly) isn't considered acceptable by the courts.

Ladybrrrd · 06/02/2023 20:05

*How do you walk away 'clearly, firmly and calmly without being a walkover' when somebody is hitting you?

You either fight back or are branded 'a pussy' and likely the future choice of the bully who wants a compliant victim.*

This isn't what happened here though. It was a boy without previous hitting after being wound up. It wasn't a bully who had been smacking him around. In some limited circumstances I can understand hitting back but deescalation is already preferable.

First off, not to be verbally mean to someone in the first place, and to learn to say sorry when you've taken things too far.

Second, after the first hit, to back off and say no firmly, or walk away, or tell them it's not on. (Or, again, apologise for winding them up, which opens up the floor for them to say sorry!)

I've never been in a full on fight. I almost have, when an unknown woman came and slapped me in the face. I took several steps back, asked her what the fuck she was doing, asked her if she was okay. Turns out she thought I was someone else and ended up crying on my shoulder.
I was bullied in school too, and what worked was restorative justice where she had to face up to what she was doing.

I've also worked previously, for many years in a job with individuals demonstrating very challenging behaviors, including squaring up, pushing me, spitting, and being generally nasty. I've had to break people up. I've worked to enable people to remain calm and avoid conflict, and being calm but firm does work.

As I've had to remind many of my old charges, if your retaliation ends up seriously injuring someone, you are going to be the one in trouble, no matter who starts it!

MissFlimpkin · 06/02/2023 20:07

You're wrong.
We'd love these rules to be a universal language , if I leave you alone you'll leave me alone but we all know that's bs. You have to stick up for yourself so as not to become the easy target. If you walk away they will come back at you and know they can use you as a punch bag to look 'hard' or the equivalent. The ideal of course is teaching our children not to be bullies. But you must start to do that before I teach my child to be a pushover.

Cocobutt · 06/02/2023 20:08

I agree with you.

I always tell students to walk away if possible and tell a teacher as it’s very likely they could end up in as much or even more trouble if they end up hurting the other person more.
Which is very annoying when they were only sticking up for themselves.

It always seems very unfair that the victim gets in trouble too but this wouldn’t be the case if they didn’t fight back.

They could also retaliate and come off a lot worse than if they just walked away.

If it was me though I personally would hit back and although I wouldn’t act proud, I certainly wouldn’t punish my child for retaliating which for many is a natural instinct.

I do remember my school friend being excluded from school as a girl was slapping him over and over and he slapped her back once but was stronger and she fell back so it looked much worse.
He was treated awfully even though technically what she did was way worse.

Onnabugeisha · 06/02/2023 20:08

Prescottdanni123 · 06/02/2023 20:01

@RachelSq

This is an extreme example but someone tells their kid to get their own back if someone hits them. Fast forward a few years to when they are a young adult. They are outside a night club and get in a drunken argument. Other person punches them. They hit back to 'settle the score'. Other person falls, cracks their head on the pavement and dies. Police ask witnesses "was it self defence?" Witnesses "No, he/she were angry because the other person it them". Their child has just ruined their life and the family of the person they hit lives because of this little bit of advice.

Yes,
All of us who hit our bullies back have become drunken pub brawl murderers. It’s the inevitable outcome of being a victim of bullying. Of course, none of the school yard bullies that punch/hit first ever grow up to be drunken pub brawl murderers like their victims do. 🙄

Wonnle · 06/02/2023 20:09

I hit back when i was at primary school , the bullying shit lost 3 teeth !

Never got bothered again

MissFlimpkin · 06/02/2023 20:10

Wonnle · 06/02/2023 20:09

I hit back when i was at primary school , the bullying shit lost 3 teeth !

Never got bothered again

Good for you. Some
Lessons aren't learnt in the classroom

Notjusta · 06/02/2023 20:10

Most hilarious thing about this thread is there is absolutely no indication there was any bullying at all in the scenario OP describes!

Quartz2208 · 06/02/2023 20:11

But the OPs child wasn’t being bullied and didn’t retaliate to prevent himself or others being bullied. That is very different

he was in a group of friends that between then let a disagreement get out of hand. Is there even really retaliation or just a verbal fight which got physical on all sides

IDontWantToBeAPie · 06/02/2023 20:14

Sorry but if someone physically assaults me I will hit them back until they stop.

Thankfully I've never been in that situation but would you just stand there and take hits to your person?

MarshaMelrose · 06/02/2023 20:16

Prescottdanni123 · 06/02/2023 20:01

@RachelSq

This is an extreme example but someone tells their kid to get their own back if someone hits them. Fast forward a few years to when they are a young adult. They are outside a night club and get in a drunken argument. Other person punches them. They hit back to 'settle the score'. Other person falls, cracks their head on the pavement and dies. Police ask witnesses "was it self defence?" Witnesses "No, he/she were angry because the other person it them". Their child has just ruined their life and the family of the person they hit lives because of this little bit of advice.

This did actually happen in our town. Stupid squabble between teenagers at the end of the evening. Someone got shoved. They shoved back. Kid goes down, bangs his head on the edge of the kerb and died. The other one was prosecuted. Sad things is they knew each other and were not friends.
Being bullied and arguing over crap are two completely different things.

Prescottdanni123 · 06/02/2023 20:17

@IDontWantToBeAPie

No one is saying people shouldn't defend themselves. But hitting someone to 'settle the score' isn't the right thing to do. If someone hit someone purely out of revenge like some people on here are suggesting and not at all out of self defence and they end up seriously injured or worse, you'll be in the most trouble.

cansu · 06/02/2023 20:18

Sounds like your ds friendly banter started this altercation. One person's friendly banter is another person's verbal bullying.

TeenDivided · 06/02/2023 20:19

IDontWantToBeAPie · 06/02/2023 20:14

Sorry but if someone physically assaults me I will hit them back until they stop.

Thankfully I've never been in that situation but would you just stand there and take hits to your person?

Run away, shout for help, block?

puppacup · 06/02/2023 20:21

Sorry but if someone physically assaults me I will hit them back until they stop.

lol, where do you live?

The best thing is not to get into trouble & walk away from it.

The whole "hit back harder" schtick doesn't really work outside of primary school.

RachelSq · 06/02/2023 20:23

Prescottdanni123 · 06/02/2023 20:01

@RachelSq

This is an extreme example but someone tells their kid to get their own back if someone hits them. Fast forward a few years to when they are a young adult. They are outside a night club and get in a drunken argument. Other person punches them. They hit back to 'settle the score'. Other person falls, cracks their head on the pavement and dies. Police ask witnesses "was it self defence?" Witnesses "No, he/she were angry because the other person it them". Their child has just ruined their life and the family of the person they hit lives because of this little bit of advice.

I’m not sure why you tagged me here?

I’m in the side of don’t be violent just because they were first, only do so if you’re in actual danger and do it in a self defence way.

2chocolateoranges · 06/02/2023 20:24

I agree with your dh, I’ve always told mine not to hit first but if someone hits you thump them back harder. I wouldn’t stand and let someone hit me I’d thump them back and I’d expect my children to do the same.

Notjusta · 06/02/2023 20:24

IDontWantToBeAPie · 06/02/2023 20:14

Sorry but if someone physically assaults me I will hit them back until they stop.

Thankfully I've never been in that situation but would you just stand there and take hits to your person?

Really?? What if they are a 6ft2 bodybuilder? Or just stronger/bigger/better at fighting than you?? I suppose they might stop when you are unconscious...

Dibbydoos · 06/02/2023 20:26

He has a right to defend himself end of.

I'm with your DH - he hit back because he was being attacked.

Watsername · 06/02/2023 20:30

No, he shouldn't hit back.

At my school we encourage them to tell a grown up immediately if they have been hurt, and it will be dealt with. If they hit back, then they get into trouble too. It is never acceptable to hit.

Springis · 06/02/2023 20:31

Telling a child he can’t hit back to defend himself is a really dangerous message that encourages bullies.

He’s entitled to self-defence, as are you and I.

”Walk away and tell the teacher” never achieved anything. Last time my son told a teacher about bullying, the teacher replied “oh dear” and did nothing.

roarfeckingroarr · 06/02/2023 20:32

YABVU

Prescottdanni123 · 06/02/2023 20:33

@Onnabugeisha

You don't have to set out to be a murderer 🙄 But someone hits you outside a pub, or in a park, or cafe or anywhere really, if you hit back in anything other than self defence and that person ends up dead, police are going to be after you. You might only intend to give them a black eye or a bloody nose, but when you take a swing at someone, there is a chance they will suffer serious or fatal injuries. Sane for if you throw the first punch.

puppacup · 06/02/2023 20:33

I agree with your dh, I’ve always told mine not to hit first but if someone hits you thump them back harder. I wouldn’t stand and let someone hit me I’d thump them back and I’d expect my children to do the same.

What indiscriminately? Have you actually ever been in this situation?

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