What is a woman?

[smileladiesplease]

Rishi tonight on talk TV

piers 'what is a woman?'

Rishi 'an adult human female!'

Fffsssss Starmer wake the bastard fuck up!!!!!!!

Seriously now read the bloody room!!!!! I want to vote Labour again please

@QueenCamilla

So your scientific reference here is... literally your own subjective perception which you believe is 'never wrong'.

Got it. 👍

It's not subjective. It's evolutionary objective. Like I can clearly tell apart a black man from a white man, a short woman from a tall one, green eyes from brown eyes, old man from a boy, a cow from an elephant... Oh wait! That last one. I used to point at cows in the field and call them "elepants" as a kid.
It was an "elepant" before I was forced to believe it's a cow. The plot thickens... 🤔

The sources... Where do I start. Let's start at the beginning.
The Human Body - Illustrated encyclopedia for children.
I also have the Adult version but that might be a little advanced for someone like yourself, just starting out. For adults there is the medical term of "hermaphrodite" included under the rare biological sex disorders. Once again, probably too advanced.

Look, belive what you want to belive, just don't harm your beautiful body in the process. To cringe at your Celtic tattoo from the year 2000 is one thing, to cringe at your body rejecting a transplanted urethra is not cringey - it's painful.

I'd like to read some of your sources though! I'm actually interested to understand the source that props up this non-debate.

Stay healthy 💐

It should never have come to this.

I do not subscribe to current gender ideology. What matters is whether you need to see a gynecologist or urologist. Anything else is personality.

Gender ideology just says that you should behave a certain way depending on your sex. If you don't want to behave that way you should change your sex?!!

How about letting everyone behave however they want (within reason)? It doesn't depend on sex. You are a man but want to wear a dress? Go ahead. A woman that wants to be a grown tomboy? Go ahead. Just let women keep their sex based rights.

I'm woke and proud of it. I'm "awoken" to the injustices of the world. Being woke has nothing to do with subscribing to gender ideology or any views apart from being kind.

Kindness matters. There is no such thing as "gender", only sex. Large gametes or small gametes. Some people have a rare genetic abnormality and should choose their sex. Overall, just accept everyone for who they are but don't try to change something that can't be changed - your sex.

Well done Rishi
No mumbling, confusion …..ooooo noooo I don’t know what to say for the best….
Starmer needs to get a grip on this subject…….he’s far too left for me…..esp on womens rights.

Now Rishi can we have our toilets and changing rooms back please !

I think this issue is absolutely fundamental.

It really doesn't matter what colour your politics are, whether you're libertarian or authoritarian or any other -arian if you don't understand that sex is binary so you get male humans and female humans and that sex is immutable, then you don't understand the population you are supposed to be governing.

If you don't understand, if you don't even KNOW the population to that tiny extent, then you cannot even begin to govern it properly.

There is noparty worthvoting for. I can't vote Labour because of their idiotic attitude, and I certainly won't vote Tory. It won't be Green or Libe Dem either.

Last GE I spoilt my ballot.

Sometimes when I'm alone I like to strap on a dildo and stroke it... Oh course I don't. I can see the potential with 2 people but...

Guess what? No feeling because I have a clit and vagina.
The only thing it does is cover my C-section scars where my body was cut open to birth 2 children from my womb.

I hear womb transplants are the next thing.

Same here. Lifelong Labour.

Good for you for showing up and spoiling your ballot.

I feel politically homeless. The Tories are basically authoritarian enablers of robber barons. In the Corbyn years I had some hope that he would win an election and introduce decent policies. I consider Starmer an unprincipled authoritarian who, together with his front bench, is prepared to chuck women under the bus.

That the front bench varies on this question between flustered obfuscation and the outright sneering hostility of David Lammy makes them, in my eyes, unelectable.

Ditto Lib Dems and Greens. Corbyn eventually disappointed me with his "he/him" pronouns. I can't take anyone who genuflects to this nonsense seriously.

Agree there’s no way I want a party happy to enforce gender ideology on us all. We’re just seeing the reverses filter through and it’s taking a while, but happening at least. And we will get free of it.

I would despair to go backwards and looking at Labour it’s so entrenched in gender lies. The MPs really do believe and defend it.

Also agree with
That the front bench varies on this question between flustered obfuscation and the outright sneering hostility of David Lammy makes them, in my eyes, unelectable.

It is quite amazing that Labour can’t see the strength of feeling on this and support women’s rights - it would be such an easy win.

The fact that they can’t (or won’t) indicates the level of authoritarianism in the party - “we will decide what’s best for you” which has crept in over the last few years.

Well, women know that being subjugated to a subset of our sex, losing our words to advocate for our rights and losing our single sex spaces (not ‘safe’ spaces as Labour insists on calling them) is not good for us.

I can never vote for a party that doesn’t recognise me as a woman and a person with rights.

So how come most of you automatically believe Sunak is sincere when his party has bailed on most of their promises ?
None of you will trust Starmer if he changes his direction but Sunak it seems is teflon coated.

See,that's the thing, isn't it.
Your comment implies all women think the same when we all have our own experiences and opinions.
On account of being individuals

The wonderful thing about women is that we are all individuals with different political leanings, different interests, different looks, different sexualities. We all share the same attributes though in that we are all adult human females.

What I find astonishing is that some posters on this thread, on Mumsnet, which is a parenting site, think women are something other than adult human females. I'd like to know what they think women are?

Do we?

Well, on the woman question, I believe he means it because I believe most sane adults know that a woman is an adult human female. On other matters I may be far more sceptical. The OPs question was more about starmer really. How can we trust a man who can't answer such a simple question directly and clearly?

None of you will trust Starmer if he changes his direction

Rubbish, if Starmer makes it clear that his party thinks that Sex matters, that women are adult human females and that there are situations in which this is important, such as prisons, refuges, sport, schools, rape crisis centres etc... then he'll win back the vote of many women.

He could do that if he wanted to, that's not bigoted it's the truth and is equality because it ensures that women can fully access society in safety. It really shouldn't be too much to ask.

Trans people can have full protection at law from harassment, in employment and housing. No one wants their lives to be worse.

The problem is that the small minority of individuals who want to gain access to women's spaces are male and have a powerful lobby group behind them. They don't care about which women are harmed or decline from accessing public spaces because they are there. It's pretty fucking obvious in this scenario who the women are, they are not this tiny but ever so powerful minority.

I don’t think a lot of us think he is sincere. I think he is stating facts.

The problem is, it’s become an issue where so many people are to afraid of the back lash , to state facts. That’s what it’s come to. Politicians being afraid of upsetting people who want biological men to have access to women’s spaces.

Many on here believe that KS doesn’t believe what he is saying. So they already believe he is saying something he doesn’t believe, to appease who exactly?

RS might be saying to appease concerned women. But he is, factually correct. KS is saying something he (apparently) doesn’t believe which is factually incorrect and harmful to women.

That does mean the Tories are great. Or RS is amazing. It does make him one step in front of KS on this issue.

The Tories are not the champion of women. Especially, vulnerable women. However, you can’t target help towards women if you can’t explain what a woman is. So Labour can not not accomplish anything that helps women, if you don’t know what one is.

as many have said, it’s not going to make me vote Tory. This issue will make me not vote labour.

Unlikely and I note your total evasion of the actual questions and failure to backup your claims about my voting plans.

So feel free to have another go at answering and especially - what skin have you put in the game for Labour over the years?

Or just another armchair clicktivist.

Starmer has a lot of people around him that will not let him change direction even if he wanted to.

Next time we know, we'll have a baloon hoovering over Trafalgars Square (like the ones in the US, Canada and Venezuela)

This is not a time for spineless, BeKind leaders, I'm afraid

Sunak is as spineless as they come. He's in thrall to the extremists in his party, which is, among other things, why Braverman is Home Secretary after breaking the ministerial code. He was, however, able to state his views on the definition of a woman with impunity.

I agree even if Starmer knows the public thinks it’s wrong he has a problem with ideology in his party. And I doubt they’re going to leave.

My God, the actual abusive men and those in power who benefit from the oppression of women must just fucking love that so much oxygen is being given to this niche issue

Yes, they do, many of them are quite the fans of trans rights activism.

Starmer uses the incorrect term " safe spaces" when he really should understand that the Equality Act talks about single-sex spaces.
" Safe spaces " has no meaning in law or reality.
Similarly he talks about " the gender which you are born into". He is confusing a feeling( gender) with a biological reality ( sex). I am quite appalled that a leading lawyer can mix up these two terms which have completely different meanings. No wonder his party is confused and MPs like David Lammy, Lisa Nandy and Russell Moyle are allowed such a free rein to spout their nonsense.

@KimberleyClark · Yesterday 21:15

ChangedmynameagainforChristmas · Yesterday 14:20

A woman gives birth to live young. A wo-man. She has a womb. Isn't that the better definition? A man cannot be a woman as he does not have a womb. Ask Julian Clary - he will tell you.

Some women are born without a womb. So according to your definition they are not women.

That's the biological definition of a woman. I don't see where I mentioned what you are saying ?? Please clarify

I trust that he sincerely has not given up all sense and still know what a woman actually is. I trust nothing else.

Personally, I think Starmer cannot return from this. He has not just shown an inability to think clearly regarding his male and class power, he has actively assaulted women's rights through his treatment of women who have have retained the ability to care about the female of the species. He needs to leave politics and all positions of power. I do believe in second chances but not for someone who is as passively and actively damaging - and takes pride in that - as this odious man. He is a danger to women.

It is odd that he’s so bad at this. He should know clarity of language is important. He doesn’t though, he’s mixed up and waffly.