what to do about dog problem?!

[sundaysundae1]

i know this comes up time and time again on here, and some people have very strong opinions on the situation, but after yet another walk where my dog was harassed by an absolute monster off the lead, and another tragic dog bite story in the news, im frankly sick of it.

I have a beautifully natured retriever who comes everywhere with me. We have horses and access to land, and he can run within the grounds of the property which is all fenced off anyway. We also frequently go to dog fields and dog areas where they are allowed off the lead. But when walking in public- parks, streets, countryside, fields and basically everywhere else, he stays on the lead. He is fully trained and socialised and i would trust him with my life and he largely ignores other people and animals unless they stop to pet him, but he is a dog! They can do impulsive things. I dont trust that he wouldnt get hyper and run up to a family to say hello and accidentally knock over a child with excitement, or that he wouldnt run up to another dog to play. He wouldnt mean any harm, but not everybody likes other dogs and frankly i wouldnt want a strange dog running up to me or my kids. Just because i think he's the cutest, most adorable boy in the world doesnt mean that to someone else he's not a terrifying giant slobbery monster that could hurt them. Therefore he stays on the lead at all times.

i am sick to the back fucking teeth of other idiotic and selfish dog owners letting their badly behaved dogs off the lead to approach other people and dogs. he is on the lead. he doesnt want to say hello and neither do i. I just dont undestand the mindset that that behaviour is ok? its even scarier around livestock in rural areas- i dont care how well trained your dog is, NOBODY can guarantee their dog wont impulsively chase sheep or animals. Even if these owners are so selfish not to care about others- dont they realise their dog could be shot dead by the farmer?! if you love your dog so much, why would you risk their safety like that?!

and as for the discussion about dangerous breeds and the massive increase in bites, we absolutely need to change the law around dog ownership. We need to tighten up about certain dog breeds. Yes, all dogs can bite and kill including my retriever, but some of these dogs are built like hippos and have traits bred specifically for fighting or aggression, and are completely unsuitable for 99% of owners. The idea that anyone upon turning 18 can go and buy an XL bully with absolutely no training or licensing is insane. Im sick of excuses that Rover the american mastiff x pittie x malinois x XL bullie is a safe gentle giant who wouldnt harm a fly. Im sure he is, but if he followed his instincts and breed traits and ended up mauling someone, it would be much more catastrophic than from other dogs. From a dog owner perspective, i dread seeing these dogs because im terrified of them breaking free and ripping my dog to shreds. I was harassed and chased by an out of control XL bully/pitbull type dog whilst on my horse which i genuinely thought would maul my horse with me on it. This animal was built like a tank and it was the most terrifying moment of my life.

I also want to clarify that I've actually owned 2 dogs of a breed considered to be 'bad' and they were dogs with a working purpose. Dogs like malinois' are largely unsuitable for non working homes and we need to stop pretending otherwise.

But on the flip side, the problematic dog owners with out of control dangerous breeds will still find a way to own these dogs- after all pitbulls are banned yet still a relatively common dog. And if these problematic owners are prevented buying these dogs and get a less notorious breed, will this breed then end up becoming problematic too?

people mention dog licenses and tighter control of dog ownership but the problematic dog owners dont care about that and it wont make a difference

we have a real problem with some entitled dog owners but i honestly dont know what the solution is!

Both YANBU and YABU.

There are bad dog owners everywhere and increasingly since lockdown when everyone went a bit puppy mad. Equally, there are people with irrational fears of dogs who infect their children with irrational fears of dogs and feel it’s justified to scream that a dog came within ten metres of them. You’re definitely not wrong regarding idiots and livestock - people are incredibly ignorant of how much harm a dog can do if it worries pregnant ewes, even if it doesn’t bite. I don’t disagree with you regarding certain breeds being unsuitable to certain homes, although people are always offended that their malamute isn’t suited to their studio flat. All of this is really a case of manners and common sense though.

You’ve really hit upon the crux of the issue when it comes to safety. If we banned all the breeds that are considered “dangerous” now (XL bully, Rottweilers, GSD etc) then, very quickly, we’d see two things happen:
a) People finding an illegal way to source and breed and own these dogs regardless. The owners of the dangerous individual members of these breeds are the owners with very little regard for safety and their legal obligations in the first place. The people who would be prevented from getting that breed are the ones who are actually the sensible owners whose dog was unlikely to be aggressive despite its breed.
b) Other breeds being shifted through selective breeding and societal perception shifting to become the new “dangerous” breed. If you took a golden retriever or a springer spaniel and bred them for size and aggression then, within a few generations, you’d have a very dangerous dog.

All in all, the problem wouldn’t be resolved. People who want to own a status symbol that makes them look “tough” or own a weapon or a “guard dog” will do so no matter how many restrictions, compulsory training sessions or licenses are brought in and regardless of how many dog breeds are banned. However, I would support tougher laws and an imposition of licences/training/etc because at least then action might be taken prior to life being lost rather than afterwards and also because, frankly, I’m sick of the people going scott-free or with minimal repercussions after their actions take a life.

Dogs are allowed in this country and can be off the lead. If your dog is bad with other dogs that’s your problem not the owner of the friendly dog.

fyi XL bullies are naturally kind tempered, they are breed from pits but mixed with other bull breads or even retrievers/labs. It is bad owners who don’t know how to deal with them and beat them for punishment making the dog aggressive.
My dad has two XL Bullies who would change your mind on them.

And they aren’t a status symbol have you seen them as puppies? Telling me that chunky puppy isn’t cute? They’re doppy as well think they’re babies as big dogs

This. In general it's good for dogs to socialise with each other. There's room for more animals than just humans on this planet

Dogs are allowed in this country and can be off the lead. If your dog is bad with other dogs that’s your problem not the owner of the friendly dog.

But they must be under control. Approaching any dog/horse/person they see is not acceptable. If the other dog is under control either by voice or lead, and yours is too it shouldn't matter to you in the slightest if the other dog is bad with dogs, because your dog shouldn't be approaching without you having spoken to the owner first. If your dog just approaches because you haven't got it under control, and their dog is on lead/under control then that's your problem.

I have what could be classed (by Mumsnet) as a dangerous dog and I am fed up of people with retrievers and terriers having off lead dogs and no recall running up to my dog.

Bad dog owners are everywhere and until the gov take some priority of this nothing will change as most think they are fantastic dog owners with fantastic dogs. I've had arguments with people about keeping their dog under control and so many unnecessary comments about mine who is genuinely very well trained and controlled. I've had picnics and dogs ruin them without even an apology. Two off lead labradors attack me and my dog while their owner was across the field and trying to stop my dog defending himself so he doesn't get in trouble. I have no qualms about taking hard measurements to protect my dog and me.

I take mine at odd times and odd places to avoid everyone.

YANBU op, but I really don’t know what the answer is.

I love dogs and it’s great to see them out and about enjoying life, especially on the beach near where I live. 9/10 they get along absolutely fine together off lead, but there have been a few occasions where I have seen off lead dogs approach on lead dogs and this does cause issues. I think it’s partly down to the on lead dog feeling trapped and unable to move away. Also I’ve seen small children harassed by dogs where their owners have been nowhere to be seen or too far away to intervene. I’ve had to step in on a couple of occasions when parents haven’t been aware or dealing with other children. Luckily nothing awful has happened yet, but it’s only a matter of time unfortunately.

Tighter laws. As I said on the other thread
the only time I’ve ever had trouble walking my own dog is with other dogs off lead. We could walk by the same dog on a lead and have no trouble. It’s when they are off lead and in your dogs face / space / bouncing around.

This!

Fear of dogs is in no way irrational, as recent incidents have shown. Any dogs can bite, and no one can know if a stranger’s dog is aggressive or not. What is needed is all dogs to be on a short lead whenever out of their home. If you want a dog make sure you have access to adequate private land to exercise it on.

fyi XL bullies are naturally kind tempered, they are breed from pits but mixed with other bull breads or even retrievers/labs.

American XL bullies are responsible for 6 of the 10 deaths in the UK from dog attacks. English Bulldogs and a staffie responsible for 2 more. It's disingenuous to say that the breeding isn't part of the problem.

*in 2022

@Boisey there are miles upon miles of public access forestry land alone where dogs can be walked whilst rarely seeing another soul. It's a bit overkill to say that dogs need to be on a short lead at all times unless you're rich enough to own significant land privately!

I take my dog to a public access sports field and walk her on a 30ft lead. We stay away from other people and dog walkers on the field, 1) because she is nervous and 2) because that length of lead is a trip hazard and I manage the risk very carefully to make sure that it is no risk at all to other people and dogs because we are out of reach of them. If a really determined jogger approaches I can see them from miles off and gather up the dog and the lead.

In slightly busier but still roomy areas I use a 12ft extendable lead. We still avoid all contact with other people and dogs.

Dogs need to be under control at all times, but a short lead is overkill for that in many situations :)

What is needed is all dogs to be on a short lead whenever out of their home. If you want a dog make sure you have access to adequate private land to exercise it on.

Prize for most ridiculous comment of the day.

Your info is from where please?
I know a few people with XL bullies, how many do you know?

Grow up lol 😂

Wow! OP, hardly anyone is as rich and privileged as you. Most people don't have access to acres of private land. Are only the rich allowed a dog?

My puppy loves to play with other dogs. I walk him in a field near me where other people walk their dogs. We are training him to come back when called, but he's a puppy so doesn't always obey!

If I take him to the playpark or near a school etc... Or areas where there may be children or dogs are not expected to be present, I always keep him on the lead, but in rural fields where there are other dog walkers and dogs are expected to be, I let him off the lead to run and have fun. I am mindful and if I see him run towards people.or other dogs, I call him back and keep him on the lead until checking with the other owners that the dogs can be let off to play together, then I let him off again. Like I say, he's a puppy and doesn't always come back, but he's nearly there.

So other people who don't like dogs have to put up with you and your puppy whilst you train him?

Dogs needs space and human interaction, if you work FT and your dog is left alone for hours on end, especially true as WFH is winding up, its just cruel to have one.

I'd like a Porsche, unfortunately, only the rich can afford one... how unfair!!!

No no no! You don’t let your puppy off until his recall is spot on. Honestly, do people not know dogs anymore? Get a long line for training and if he’s not 💯 don’t let him off. It could save his life one day too!

I was taught as a child that if you see a dog on a lead, you put yours on one to ensure yours doesn’t bother the other dog. If your dog has amazing recall and is well trained not to bother others then great too. Honestly people think their dogs have a given right to run up to other dogs and people need to go back to dog training classes.

people mention dog licenses and tighter control of dog ownership but the problematic dog owners dont care about that and it wont make a difference Regulation is needed though, clearly. It would make a difference because if a dog at your neighbour's house was looking seriously concerning and not licensed, action could be taken on that before it gets to the injuring other dogs/people stage.

The situation around dogs needs addressing.

Do you think the responses on yet another dog post are going to be any different to all the other ones @sundaysundae1?

Or did you post to get validation at what a wonderful dog owner you are because you've access to acres of land?

I agree about licensing, but only law abiding people will do that. Enforcement is a good idea, but who would do it, the police are way to busy with crime. If they re-introduced licences they would be expensive and we would have the usual ‘poor people can’t afford it’. Sadly since lockdowns there are far more people with dogs many who don’t look after them properly

Muzzles on dogs in public.
Neuter all fighting and baiting breeds and types.
Sorted.

What about prey dogs that go for smaller dogs? Why have you not counted them?

Also giant breeds shouldn't be neutered until around 2 for various reasons including locking them in bad behaviour so what about about them? That's two years of threat according to you

Sounds like you're making excuses.
We can't go on like this. We need to be rid of these breeds.

There's no evidence to support waiting two years to neuter. They could have bred by then and we are no further forward.