what to do about dog problem?!

[sundaysundae1]

i know this comes up time and time again on here, and some people have very strong opinions on the situation, but after yet another walk where my dog was harassed by an absolute monster off the lead, and another tragic dog bite story in the news, im frankly sick of it.

I have a beautifully natured retriever who comes everywhere with me. We have horses and access to land, and he can run within the grounds of the property which is all fenced off anyway. We also frequently go to dog fields and dog areas where they are allowed off the lead. But when walking in public- parks, streets, countryside, fields and basically everywhere else, he stays on the lead. He is fully trained and socialised and i would trust him with my life and he largely ignores other people and animals unless they stop to pet him, but he is a dog! They can do impulsive things. I dont trust that he wouldnt get hyper and run up to a family to say hello and accidentally knock over a child with excitement, or that he wouldnt run up to another dog to play. He wouldnt mean any harm, but not everybody likes other dogs and frankly i wouldnt want a strange dog running up to me or my kids. Just because i think he's the cutest, most adorable boy in the world doesnt mean that to someone else he's not a terrifying giant slobbery monster that could hurt them. Therefore he stays on the lead at all times.

i am sick to the back fucking teeth of other idiotic and selfish dog owners letting their badly behaved dogs off the lead to approach other people and dogs. he is on the lead. he doesnt want to say hello and neither do i. I just dont undestand the mindset that that behaviour is ok? its even scarier around livestock in rural areas- i dont care how well trained your dog is, NOBODY can guarantee their dog wont impulsively chase sheep or animals. Even if these owners are so selfish not to care about others- dont they realise their dog could be shot dead by the farmer?! if you love your dog so much, why would you risk their safety like that?!

and as for the discussion about dangerous breeds and the massive increase in bites, we absolutely need to change the law around dog ownership. We need to tighten up about certain dog breeds. Yes, all dogs can bite and kill including my retriever, but some of these dogs are built like hippos and have traits bred specifically for fighting or aggression, and are completely unsuitable for 99% of owners. The idea that anyone upon turning 18 can go and buy an XL bully with absolutely no training or licensing is insane. Im sick of excuses that Rover the american mastiff x pittie x malinois x XL bullie is a safe gentle giant who wouldnt harm a fly. Im sure he is, but if he followed his instincts and breed traits and ended up mauling someone, it would be much more catastrophic than from other dogs. From a dog owner perspective, i dread seeing these dogs because im terrified of them breaking free and ripping my dog to shreds. I was harassed and chased by an out of control XL bully/pitbull type dog whilst on my horse which i genuinely thought would maul my horse with me on it. This animal was built like a tank and it was the most terrifying moment of my life.

I also want to clarify that I've actually owned 2 dogs of a breed considered to be 'bad' and they were dogs with a working purpose. Dogs like malinois' are largely unsuitable for non working homes and we need to stop pretending otherwise.

But on the flip side, the problematic dog owners with out of control dangerous breeds will still find a way to own these dogs- after all pitbulls are banned yet still a relatively common dog. And if these problematic owners are prevented buying these dogs and get a less notorious breed, will this breed then end up becoming problematic too?

people mention dog licenses and tighter control of dog ownership but the problematic dog owners dont care about that and it wont make a difference

we have a real problem with some entitled dog owners but i honestly dont know what the solution is!

I find it really distasteful that people use these tragic cases to push for legislation, e.g. dogs on lead that would make sod all difference to children getting attacked in their homes.

So many entitled dog owners, DH and I were walking at a local beauty spot, a dog jumped up at us, we politely asked the dog owner to keep their dog under control and we were told 'you shouldn't walk in an area where people take their dogs' .

@Ragwort I hear that all the time from other dog owners, drives me nuts. 😡

My dad has two XL Bullies who would change your mind on them.

The trouble is that I am sure that every last idiot who has been killed, or has had a child killed, by dogs in their home probably said the same. Good luck to your dad if they have a bad day ...

The increase in professional dog walkers is also an issue.

They are an absolute menace in London and surrounding wood / common / heathlands and parks.

I was walking behind 2 women who had about 8 or 10 dogs between them in Battersea Park yesterday. Notices everywhere saying dogs on leads round the ponds because of wildlife and especially bird flu.

3 of the dogs were big fit energetic dogs, maybe Weimeramers ?. Off lead and not monitored by the walkers. They were leaping back and forth over the railings that surround the ponds, scaring the coots and moorhens, which are just about to start nest building.

In Brockwell park walkers have huge numbers. They turn up in big transit vans, loads of dogs off lead, too many for the walkers to spot when they foul the grass and make sure it is all cleared up. Or 6 or 7 all on leads, jostling about and not looking very happy.

I think dog walkers should be licensed and work within regulations, but in reality it’s hard to enforce.

It’s because you have the owners details on the dog’s little book, I’m unsure how you call it in English, and especially it forces you to have a vet visit at least once.
I do agree it’s more a retrospective measure though

As I said though the fines in my country are huge

And also you’re not allowed to sell a dog without the chip (which would imply it’s been to the vets, and you can honestly see if it’s sitting quietly or being anxious or agressive (big difference between the last two) that’s against the law. Only on Google….

That wouldn't have stopped all of the deaths. The dogs have either been on private property or got out. Fighting and bating breeds is a vast spectrum. I do wish that XL Bullys were never created, though.
I felt sick when I saw the headline. I know a family of four children who have a out of control Chow and thought it was going to be their little girl. The RSPCA is picking the dog up in three weeks. We are just hoping it doesn't kill someone until then. I don't know the address or I'd phone the police.

It’s also illegal to sell a dog without a chip here. I think.

What country are you in @Godlovesall26 as it sounds very sensible.

There is no point in enacting legislation about chips or walking on lead or banning backstreet breeders or minimum size houses for dogs or compulsory training without the enforcement to back it up. Because the good owners will comply and the bad ones will just carry on as they always have done.

Absolutely this. People will often quote the statistics about dachshunds or chihuahuas being the most likely to bite. That may be, but I can protect my face, throat and chest by simply standing up. Xl bullies, rotties, mastiffs are all taller than me once standing on hind legs.

I own a giant breed. He is reasonably friendly but I keep him on lead because of his size I don't want him to accidentally hurt anyone. He also has purely decorative ears and does not return instantly so is only off in private enclosed fields.

Dog licenses could maybe help - having to show training and demonstrate responsible ownership. The requirement for insurance like in cars - my dog is insured for himself but also in case he caused damage or injury.

Tougher leash laws in cities, town and villages that are actually enforced, as well as much harsher penalties for not picking up dog muck!

I despair of anyone shouting 'he's a pup' or 'he's friendly' as their dog charges over to me, this is not responsible dog ownership and is not teaching their dog a single thing. Dogs don't need to be social with every passing person/animal. They need to listen to their owners and be focused on them.

Purely decorative ears

😄

In Spain all dogs have to be on leads in public places and dangerous breeds have to be muzzled.

You must get insurance and apply for a licence where your criminal record is checked.

blog.abacoadvisers.com/who-let-the-dogs-out-advice-about-dogs-in-spain/

@Godlovesall26 yes I understood the reasoning behind microchip but as pp said at the time it only works with the responsible owners. Others will just ignore it as always and without checks/enforcement there's no way to tell if a dog has a microchip.

No legislation will stop all of the deaths.

That isn't a good reason to do nothing though.

Legislation needs improving. To me the central issue is bringing back the dog licence. The reason for this is dog behaviour need to be policed and someone needs to pay for that. It should be dog owners of course.

Once you get that general principle in place, that dogs need to be policed and their owners should pay for it, then you can start thinking about the specific pieces of legislation required/how dogs should be policed.

Saying "there's no point doing that because some people won't get the licence" is the same as saying "there's no point in speed limits because some people will always speed".

I agree but the difference is that speeding is something that can easily be monitored/policed by automated system

Dog walkers/dog behaviour can easily be monitored by dog wardens. You just have to pay for them. In the same way you pay for speed guns, cameras and police officers.

I think we need to have far stronger laws in the U.K. and the KC need to bloody well step up and be far stricter about registering. They could have a positive influence but have frankly been shit. There’s a cavalier stud that’s sired 50odd litters and he has syringomyelia but his offs are still KC registered. I know this thread is about nuisance/dangerous dogs, but the KC could be of use in conjunction with much more robust laws.

Unfortunately, licensing laws will only be of use to responsible owners who wouldn’t dream of owning an xl bully. On another forum, an owner was describing how he witnessed a convention of xl bully types in a local park, with bitches being covered in the back of a van, cropped ears everywhere he looked. This sort of behaviour should involve a prison sentence, but it will only be driven underground if laws are created.

Love this explanation and going to try some of these games with mine to see if we can move forward with recall!

Frankly, yes, it would be helpful to have some sort of mandatory training. Plus no off lead in populated areas.

People are only talking about dog deaths here, but if you have been chased and bitten by a dog whilst out running or seen your toddler knocked over and hurt by a big "he won't hurt you" dog, you'd also very reasonably think, as I do, that dogs are dangerous more generally and that owners need to take more responsibility.

I think that yes, if your dog hurts someone, there should be a big penalty for you. And if it kills someone, that should be manslaughter.

Dog ownership has got massively out of control, not helped by lockdown. Everyone here will claim that they pick after their dog, but there is masses more dog shit in public places of late and we really do need to see dog ownership as a privilege that comes with responsibilities and not a right that exists regardless of your impact on others.

Sorry but distance and cost and inconvenience of dog fields is irrelevant. You chose to get a dog, this is part of owning a dog
No it isn't part of it at all. Only in you narrow minded, self focused world. My local park doesn't require ogs to be on the lead. I've been going for 10 years and not one dog, child or other have been attacked causing harm there. Dogs play well together and despite a children play park in that park, there are no issues, so no, i ertsinly wouldn't contribute to yet more traffic and pollution.

If your ‘5kg of fur’ dog decided to have a silly moment (which you cannot 100% guarantee he won’t) he could kill someone on a horse, or kill livestock, or cause an entire flock of sheep to miscarry, and probably end up shot in the process. When it’s not your livestock, it’s not your risk to take
You clearly don't trust your dog. That is YOUR problem. I trust mine s much as I trusted my kids not to run riot on walks. As already said the local farmers don't have an issue with my dog because they've seen how it behaves. They would mot stand a chance next to a sheep let alone a horse. They are scared of them and rightly so.

stop projection your need of caution with your own dog to everyone else. Many dogs are as reliable as the average kid or even adult.

Absolutely crazy to think otherwise
It'sreally not but you sound very righteous and unable to consider that not everyone live your life and that your experience is mot forcibly that of everyone else.

Yep mine are only let off lead in an enclosed field I can rent, otherwise on lead. One of mine has been bit by 2 different dogs - both times the owners knew the dog would bite and neither apologised. Unfortunately it’s turned her into a nervous wreck and I’ve had to spend a lot of money on training and building her confidence back up. My other dog is tiny so if either of them dogs bit her I would dread to think the damage they could do.

I hear that all the time from other dog owners, drives me nuts
See I've never ever heard that but again, this is a rare occurrence. I do believe that owners should teach their dogs not to jump, because it's just rude and bad manners. Unlikely to cause harm though.

Yes very true, you can only check at the vets with a sort of instant scanning small device.

so the owners without just wouldn’t go to the vets. And they’d be much more likely to carry illnesses

I agree it’s not a sufficient measure, it’s an accessory one (then if you dos gets I’ll, which is much more likely without the appropriate vaccines etc, no going to the vets for you… how is that just not cruelty, it just baffles me), the main one is extremely regulated ownership of classified dangerous breeds (not their fault, it’s their instinct), any police officer or regular person can spot them a mile away

As for the ones getting attacked in their own homes, it also baffles me why you would get these breeds if you have kids. Although if I’ve understood correctly mostly it was the neighbors ? How irresponsible can you be ?

Not nearly as easily unless you're going to have a huge team of wardens in every area or cameras that can scan for microchip information.

YANBU. I'm not sure what the answer is either. Some sort of regulation is need though (paid for by the owners). For example, dogs could only be let off lead in a public place if a training test is passed where the owner can prove recall.

I also think there should be some sort of environmental tax paid by dog owners to counteract the damage caused by roughly 1000 tonnes of dog poo (in mostly non biodegradable bags) going into landfill every day.