what to do about dog problem?!

[sundaysundae1]

i know this comes up time and time again on here, and some people have very strong opinions on the situation, but after yet another walk where my dog was harassed by an absolute monster off the lead, and another tragic dog bite story in the news, im frankly sick of it.

I have a beautifully natured retriever who comes everywhere with me. We have horses and access to land, and he can run within the grounds of the property which is all fenced off anyway. We also frequently go to dog fields and dog areas where they are allowed off the lead. But when walking in public- parks, streets, countryside, fields and basically everywhere else, he stays on the lead. He is fully trained and socialised and i would trust him with my life and he largely ignores other people and animals unless they stop to pet him, but he is a dog! They can do impulsive things. I dont trust that he wouldnt get hyper and run up to a family to say hello and accidentally knock over a child with excitement, or that he wouldnt run up to another dog to play. He wouldnt mean any harm, but not everybody likes other dogs and frankly i wouldnt want a strange dog running up to me or my kids. Just because i think he's the cutest, most adorable boy in the world doesnt mean that to someone else he's not a terrifying giant slobbery monster that could hurt them. Therefore he stays on the lead at all times.

i am sick to the back fucking teeth of other idiotic and selfish dog owners letting their badly behaved dogs off the lead to approach other people and dogs. he is on the lead. he doesnt want to say hello and neither do i. I just dont undestand the mindset that that behaviour is ok? its even scarier around livestock in rural areas- i dont care how well trained your dog is, NOBODY can guarantee their dog wont impulsively chase sheep or animals. Even if these owners are so selfish not to care about others- dont they realise their dog could be shot dead by the farmer?! if you love your dog so much, why would you risk their safety like that?!

and as for the discussion about dangerous breeds and the massive increase in bites, we absolutely need to change the law around dog ownership. We need to tighten up about certain dog breeds. Yes, all dogs can bite and kill including my retriever, but some of these dogs are built like hippos and have traits bred specifically for fighting or aggression, and are completely unsuitable for 99% of owners. The idea that anyone upon turning 18 can go and buy an XL bully with absolutely no training or licensing is insane. Im sick of excuses that Rover the american mastiff x pittie x malinois x XL bullie is a safe gentle giant who wouldnt harm a fly. Im sure he is, but if he followed his instincts and breed traits and ended up mauling someone, it would be much more catastrophic than from other dogs. From a dog owner perspective, i dread seeing these dogs because im terrified of them breaking free and ripping my dog to shreds. I was harassed and chased by an out of control XL bully/pitbull type dog whilst on my horse which i genuinely thought would maul my horse with me on it. This animal was built like a tank and it was the most terrifying moment of my life.

I also want to clarify that I've actually owned 2 dogs of a breed considered to be 'bad' and they were dogs with a working purpose. Dogs like malinois' are largely unsuitable for non working homes and we need to stop pretending otherwise.

But on the flip side, the problematic dog owners with out of control dangerous breeds will still find a way to own these dogs- after all pitbulls are banned yet still a relatively common dog. And if these problematic owners are prevented buying these dogs and get a less notorious breed, will this breed then end up becoming problematic too?

people mention dog licenses and tighter control of dog ownership but the problematic dog owners dont care about that and it wont make a difference

we have a real problem with some entitled dog owners but i honestly dont know what the solution is!

So in my country I mentioned (with several essentially forbidden categories (western European country)

1. most places do not allow dogs except like blind assistance
2. most are walked on leashes : it doesn’t have to be a one meter one, you can get long ones that are immediately retractable
3. kind of like bike lanes, it’s not really the practice to walk on the pavement alongside kids
4. even small breeds ownership isn’t encouraged in small apartments because they simply don’t get their exercice needs met : so you either get an old sleepy one or another pet ex cat

OK then, why not a law which says "animals must be on the lead in built up areas". Towns and cities. Anywhere that the roads have a speed limit of 20/30/40. On the lead on streets, in parks.

If you want your animal to run free then you must leave the town/city and find a park, field, forest whatever in a rural area.

And before everyone starts bleating on about how they live in central Manchester/Glasgow/London and would have to travel for HOURS and spend a FORTUNE to get to that sort of area - tough. Owning a dog is expensive and inconvenient. Get used to it. Or buy a hamster.

What is defined as a public place? As a dog owner I would support a policy of leads on in all parks if a fenced area could be set aside for dogs to run in off lead.

I'd say that was a fair compromise, @Cherry60 . A clearly marked off, fenced in area where the doggy people can take their animals and that those of us who don't want to be around their dogs can avoid.

At the moment it's a free for all.

‘It would take much longer to drive to the enclosed dog of leash field’

Sorry but distance and cost and inconvenience of dog fields is irrelevant. You chose to get a dog, this is part of owning a dog. At times I cba going in the car all the way to the dog field, but I bought a dog and dogs need safe off the lead time. It’s my responsibility as an owner to provide that.

you seem to have ignored every single point I previously made to you re having your dog off the lead around livestock. If your ‘5kg of fur’ dog decided to have a silly moment (which you cannot 100% guarantee he won’t) he could kill someone on a horse, or kill livestock, or cause an entire flock of sheep to miscarry, and probably end up shot in the process. When it’s not your livestock, it’s not your risk to take.

dogs should never be off the lead around other peoples livestock. Absolutely crazy to think otherwise.

It’s not an official law for us but it’s societal practice really

Maybe my message got lost, so sorry I’m repeating it : do you really have NO restrictions on breeds here ?

It is a toxic mix of inexperienced and ineffective owners, lack of accountability and responsibility, poor breeding practices and too many of the them. Breeds do have some influence but I would much prefer a well trained Bully to an out of control terrier.

a local farmer close to me just lost a field of sheep to do a dog attack. Dog bites at A&E have reached a record high.

There needs to be a huge crackdown on dog/owner behaviour and dogs removed from owners & pts if untrainable. Dogs should only be bought from licensed breeders & not over the internet to get a grip on puppy farms.

Just like that poor woman killed by a cow walking in a public path. Did she have a dog worrying the cows and/or were their calves? Common sense says don’t walk through a herd of cows with calves, even if there is a footpath. Usually there are warning signs which people choose to ignore. 😔

In the UK? There are 4 banned breeds IIRC. But the problem is that with backyard unregulated breeding, many people own dogs that actually have banned breeds in them and often the owners don’t know (although some owners do and they intentionally want a banned breed)

I agree my poor dog was attacked 2 x in a week at 9 months old but out of control Labrador's . Different dog each time and owners with zero control over them.

I'm also sick of working spaniel owners. Idiots buying a working breed then thinking long walks is enough stimulation for them. The amount of nuance spaniels I come across is a joke. Jumping all over my kids who are a bit nervous of strange dogs. While the owners say oh they so friendly.

There is no answer to this madness though unfortunately. I would fully support a all dogs on lead ban though even though it would negatively effect my dog. Because the dog situation in Uk is getting out of control.

Maybe my message got lost, so sorry I’m repeating it : do you really have NO restrictions on breeds here

There are restrictions on breeds. Pit bull types, Japanese and Brazilian fighting breeds. But there is no law which would stop someone living in a studio flat buying two St Bernards.

And yes, it’s also considered cruel to have an energetic dog if you don’t have a garden or free space (as in free from people) where it can be walked without leash (an eternal leash is cruel).

So I agree, if you love dogs that much you’d care more for their well-being
which is why I have an old sleepy cat ☺️

The majority of children who are killed by dogs are killed in their home or someone else’s house.

That’s really a people problem then. It’s a recipe for disaster unfortunately. And so cruel to those dogs.

They are totally harmless, 5kilos of fur, never ever shown any sign of agression.

funnily enough this is what the owner of the dog said after it attacked & killed that seal (Freddie) by the Thames a couple of years ago. But he would never hurt anything - after it has just killed.

the dog walker the other week was attacked by harmless dachshunds & a cockerpoo.

Totally harmless until they’re not.🤔

sadly you’re probably right.

I own a dog whom I love and try to treat well. I know we treat him better than most people treat their dogs. He gets a min of 2 hours off-lead walking with one or other of us every single day and is never left alone for more than 2 hours at a time. But he is an adult animal who is so very dependent on us for everything and I feel very uncomfortable about that. The truth is, I don’t think it’s right and I agree with everything you’ve said.

It's not just the irresponsible ones, though. There is a whole extra pile of people who look after their dogs but treat them like children, and are highly defensive of them if they growl at people. Such as the one who told me my child must have dive done thing after her dog nipped my child. If yes, despite the fact the vet muzzles it, I later discovered. Another lot who spoil them so the dog runs the house-see programmes like Dogs behaving badly. Them a further lot never walked. I don't live in a deprived area, and I can count a few dogs like this.

It sounds as if you have your dog on a lead unless I've is in your fenced off field or in a dog walking fenced area, but on a lead everywhere else?

I don't think it's much fun to walk a dog on lead - for you or the dog. Other dogs off lead will come up to say hi, it will always happen, whether you want it to or not.

Just stick to the fenced off areas or try training to improve your dogs recall. A retriever is big enough to 'tell off' other dogs who are over friendly.

But the dog is probably happier.

I was just about to ask that actually : the dogs I see in the papers are part of our danger category breeds : like do people not think before getting them when they have kids?
And what’s with the next door neighbor’s dogs escaping ? That’s a huge safeguarding issue

For ref her the fines are around 4000, quite a deterrent I’d think
Do you have fines ?

Id also imagine they’re less likely to take them to the vets (or they’d be immediately fined) so no vaccinations, no evaluation of behavior, no nothing. It’s sad

@ginslinger that must have been really hard even though was the right thing to do 💐

And there in lies the problem. My dog is on the lead in public areas and I take him to dog fields and specific places he is safe to go off the lead.

its not much fun for horse riders to be chased by out of control dogs. Or for children to be chased by out of control dogs. Or for dogs to be chased by out of control dogs. Or for sheep to miscarry. Or for livestock to be mauled.

my dog has fantastic recall but he is a dog and I have enough brains to know no dog can be 100% trusted not to have a silly moment, and I have enough respect for other people to know they don’t want my dog approaching them so I won’t risk the possibility of it happening.

jesus wept some people on this thread

I’m so sorry for you @ginslinger but you did the best responsible thing : putting his needs as a priority

The microchip system was supposed to help deal with the issue but I never understood why they thought it would help. It needs 'policing' ie like the dog wardens of old, and that will require funding.

I think breed definitely DOES come into it. That doesn't mean dogs of a particular breed should be banned, it means the owners of those particular dogs need to understand the breeding and character traits of the breed, then train and work appropriately.
And training!!! Should apply to EVERY SINGLE DOG OWNER!! it doesn't matter if you have a French bulldog or a Great Dane, every dog should walk to heel, walk past other dogs and people nicely and recall perfectly. That isn't fancy training, that is the very very basic level and I've never met a dog that couldn't be trained to do it, and older ones with ingrained bad habits can still be trained. The problem is people don't want to give the time to it, and it takes a lot of time.

See, I disagree.

We have a dog who is allowed off lead. She’s a collie from working stock so when we shout on her she’s back at our heels within seconds. Although she’s off lead, she’s always under full control, and doesn’t go out of our sight except when running off the path through the trees - but again, she’s back as soon as we shout.

If we see another dog off it’s lead approaching, we leave her off her lead. If we see a dog on its lead, she’s immediately called back and put on her lead.

our previous dog was a rescue and was dog reactive, so he was on his lead unless in a private setting, or in somewhere that we could guarantee no dogs would be (one of us would stand guard) - there was absolutely nothing worse than when walking him and someone let their off lead dog run up to him and then acted surprised when he barked and snapped at them. He was perfectly fine passing a dog who was on its lead though.

Having a working stock border collie kind of means we need to let her off her lead - she needs to run. We knew this when we got her, so we worked 1:1 with a trainer and extensively socialised her with other people/dogs - unfortunately covid struck two months after we got her which made things harder. It’s absolutely crazy to me that people CHOSE to get a dog during covid.