what to do about dog problem?!

[sundaysundae1]

i know this comes up time and time again on here, and some people have very strong opinions on the situation, but after yet another walk where my dog was harassed by an absolute monster off the lead, and another tragic dog bite story in the news, im frankly sick of it.

I have a beautifully natured retriever who comes everywhere with me. We have horses and access to land, and he can run within the grounds of the property which is all fenced off anyway. We also frequently go to dog fields and dog areas where they are allowed off the lead. But when walking in public- parks, streets, countryside, fields and basically everywhere else, he stays on the lead. He is fully trained and socialised and i would trust him with my life and he largely ignores other people and animals unless they stop to pet him, but he is a dog! They can do impulsive things. I dont trust that he wouldnt get hyper and run up to a family to say hello and accidentally knock over a child with excitement, or that he wouldnt run up to another dog to play. He wouldnt mean any harm, but not everybody likes other dogs and frankly i wouldnt want a strange dog running up to me or my kids. Just because i think he's the cutest, most adorable boy in the world doesnt mean that to someone else he's not a terrifying giant slobbery monster that could hurt them. Therefore he stays on the lead at all times.

i am sick to the back fucking teeth of other idiotic and selfish dog owners letting their badly behaved dogs off the lead to approach other people and dogs. he is on the lead. he doesnt want to say hello and neither do i. I just dont undestand the mindset that that behaviour is ok? its even scarier around livestock in rural areas- i dont care how well trained your dog is, NOBODY can guarantee their dog wont impulsively chase sheep or animals. Even if these owners are so selfish not to care about others- dont they realise their dog could be shot dead by the farmer?! if you love your dog so much, why would you risk their safety like that?!

and as for the discussion about dangerous breeds and the massive increase in bites, we absolutely need to change the law around dog ownership. We need to tighten up about certain dog breeds. Yes, all dogs can bite and kill including my retriever, but some of these dogs are built like hippos and have traits bred specifically for fighting or aggression, and are completely unsuitable for 99% of owners. The idea that anyone upon turning 18 can go and buy an XL bully with absolutely no training or licensing is insane. Im sick of excuses that Rover the american mastiff x pittie x malinois x XL bullie is a safe gentle giant who wouldnt harm a fly. Im sure he is, but if he followed his instincts and breed traits and ended up mauling someone, it would be much more catastrophic than from other dogs. From a dog owner perspective, i dread seeing these dogs because im terrified of them breaking free and ripping my dog to shreds. I was harassed and chased by an out of control XL bully/pitbull type dog whilst on my horse which i genuinely thought would maul my horse with me on it. This animal was built like a tank and it was the most terrifying moment of my life.

I also want to clarify that I've actually owned 2 dogs of a breed considered to be 'bad' and they were dogs with a working purpose. Dogs like malinois' are largely unsuitable for non working homes and we need to stop pretending otherwise.

But on the flip side, the problematic dog owners with out of control dangerous breeds will still find a way to own these dogs- after all pitbulls are banned yet still a relatively common dog. And if these problematic owners are prevented buying these dogs and get a less notorious breed, will this breed then end up becoming problematic too?

people mention dog licenses and tighter control of dog ownership but the problematic dog owners dont care about that and it wont make a difference

we have a real problem with some entitled dog owners but i honestly dont know what the solution is!

I totally agree with you OP. Write to your MP with your concerns. I would like to see all dogs on leads in certain areas too. I've had a huge, badly behaved dog jump up at me and stick it's nose in my face while out walking and while it was merely stupid and badly behaved it could equally have bitten my face - I wasn't to know whether it was friendly or not. The owner was useless, ineffectual and irresponsible too. She couldn't control the damn thing and hadn't trained it. Dog ownership went up something crazy like 40% during Covid and most of those new owners don't have a fucking clue and everyone else is suffering.

It’s everything to do with being a sensible dog owner!
No it's everything to do with you believing your attitude to dog ownership is the only correct one.

As it is, many don't agree with you and yet the vast majority of dogs, like people are well behaved and cause no issue.

Accidents happen and always will. Just like that poor woman killed by a cow walking in a public path when the farmer knew they had already attacked another walker.

"I've had to break up dog fights and 100% every darn day I'd rather deal with a bite from any other breed than any bull breed type. They are built to do damage, and I'm not at all convinced that they should be in the hands of the general population."

Agreed. I don't care how much of a 'baby' your fully grown bully is, if he loses his temper, nobody is going to be able to control him and people will get hurt (or worse).

Why would you want that in your life?

I feel a lot better about the dog that nearly killed me on my horse because ‘accidents happen and always will’- I suppose there’s absolutely nothing that could have been done to prevent that apart from the out of control untrained dog not being off the lead

the majority of dog owners are sensible. But the problematic ones ruin it for everyone

Agreed. It’s not the dogs fault but a dog that has been bred specifically for fighting and to cause maximum damage is NOT suitable as a family pet. 99% out of time it’s fine, but the 1% time when it’s not fine is disastrous and in no way similar to a bite from say a spaniel, or a cockapoo.

It’s not all breeds though.
I work with animals in a European country.
There's 3 categories of dogs : for the first and second (that are supposed to be bred for police/army etc type dogs, huge regulations to own (including no criminal offense, and really huge fines, and evaluation of behavior by a specialist vet in behavior, and mandatory muzzle) for the third nothing (the classic ones you’d think about, Labrador, and all the smaller ones)
So we don’t actually really have these type of situations, maybe du to the gigantic fines and them being quite recognisable

That being said, any breed, even the tiny cute ones, who isn’t properly socialised ( first 3 months are hugely important) and in an appropriate environment (you just can’t expect an energetic breed to stay cooped up in an apartment, it’s cruel, and it’ll be totally hyped when it finally gets out), can develop behavior problems, and just really could do just as much damage to a kid ( hence all the next door neighbor type stories : if it can escape you already have a management problem).

I said to DH last night that I couldn't remember a single incident of a person being killed by a dog when I was growing up. I don't even remember a child being seriously injured even though stray dogs were common on our estate. Either I just oblivious or something definitely changed.

I don’t know the answer but I do know that rude dogs have rude owners. I also know that many dogs aren’t trained enough to be let off the lead but idiots still let them off.

YANBU

In my message above, agreed for some breeds

For a toddler the size really doesn’t matter. If a small dog isn’t socialised adequately and in a good environment, they really could attack (through no fault of their own, they’ll see everything as a potential threat, it’s like self defense)

Internet buying is dreadful
The first three months are the crucial phase

That, and stray dogs in a way are socialised as in exposed to different environments, they’ve seen it all, kids, adults, whatever. Obviously not ideal, but they wouldn’t be scared basically

Not only do a totally agree with you, I applaud you being such a respectable and responsible human - this is the sort of humanity that I feel qualifies to then own and be responsible for another creature.

Farmers get checked for standards and treatment of animals, why should the general public be any different.

The solution is authority taking this same sort of responsibility and starting with arresting people for having illegal dogs NOW, then increasing dog control and licencing and then applying these laws.

People may feel emotionally attached to something illegal, but we don't let paedophiles use that as an excuse! Sentiment shouldn't trump reasonable laws that apply to public safety

I agree with you - I rescued a reactive dog and did my absolute best to walk him in quiet places, always on the lead, with a yellow ticket that said reactive dog, with a jacket that said reactive dog. I would call to dog owners with their off-lead dogs and ask them to call their dog which was approaching mine because my dog might attack. Then the day came when the owner refused to call back and said he was just being friendly and my dog bit their dog. And then it was all my fault despite me having done everything absolutely correctly. Our dog was rehomed to a very quiet country family. I miss him very much.

Two types of people pop up on these threads.

The neurotic, who are terrified of everything and expect everyone else to go out of their way to suit their various phobias and neuroses.

The antisocial, who go out of their way to own breeds with a known tendency to aggression and insist that their dogs (because they usually own several) definitely wouldn’t harm a fly.

Oh I absolutely agree with you there. I suppose it’s about minimising the damage. I understand a spaniel could still bite but I could physically overpower it and stop it, or at least the damage caused by its bite wouldn’t be as bad (although still horrific)

an XL bully attacking a toddler would be like being attacked by a tiger. These dogs are bred to cause damage and on a small child could kill in seconds.

Iirc correctly it’s about 6 breeds, or more like types (as in morphology) it seems in England unfortunately, as a responsible breeder would never risk the law, these dogs seem to be just got on gumtree here or whatever dubious website.

Do you really have absolutely no rules re dogs here ??

@nalabae aw I’m sure the parents of the tiny children who’ve been ripped to shreds by them in the past few years will be pleased to know they’re cute puppies. Honestly starting to think dog owner = sociopath with so of time comments you get on here.

Yes, they are part of the categories with lots of restrictions I mentioned

Just meant to say that for most it’s about socialised and environment

My puppy loves to play with other dogs. I walk him in a field near me where other people walk their dogs. We are training him to come back when called, but he's a puppy so doesn't always obey!

If your puppies recall is not reliable, they shouldn't be off lead.

It's not age dependent - you can teach excellent recall in a matter of days or weeks ime with a puppy but it must be done first, before you randomly let them off in public.

We had our springer at 8 weeks old. We started recall training within a couple of hours. 4 meals a day and for every meal she was called to it with the recall command. Several training sessions a day in between meals, all on recall, with high value treats. Hide and seek with her around the house and garden daily. By 12 weeks she was off lead on walks and bombproof. She's 7 months now and still has perfect recall, every time, but I am bracing myself for teenage years and it getting a bit ropey although no sign of that yet.

Your dog being safe and reliable off lead is about so much more than just shouting their name and expecting them to come. You need to teach the dog that it's YOU that are the flight risk. You need to dodge and change direction on walks, hide from them, run away from them. Make them think you're unpredictable as hell so that they always have one eye on you and believe they have to come when called or you'll bugger off and leave them.

No dog wants to lose their owner. Dogs with poor recall are that way for only one reason - because they are supremely confident that it's YOU that are following THEM and that you won't leave them. People call and call, walk after them, chase them, hang around politely whilst the dog finishes sniffing something. They walk the same walk daily, in a big circuit, which teaches the dog to believe you're always walking in a straight line, hence they'll always know where you are...meaning they don't have to watch you or come when called.

If your dog has poor recall, take them to a secure ish but unfamiliar area with obstacles and hide from them. Watch their creeping panic when they realise you're gone, which might take a minute or twenty minutes but will happen. Make them look for you, reward when they find you. Keep doing this and recall will improve massively.

I think it's time we admitted that the situation we have now with human beings 'owning' another sentient being does not work for either species. Well, it may work for some dogs and probably works for larger numbers of people but for every dog living what we think is a happy life (and who are we to judge?), many others suffer. From ill-bred dogs that endure a life of suffering, to those whose only role in life is to produce puppies to make humans rich, to racing greyhounds, to dogs made to fight other dogs or go on badger baits and the like, to hounds belonging to hunts, to dogs owned by well meaning people who ultimately fail their dogs, to those that spend their entire day alone in a house waiting for their owner to come home and so on.
As well as that, you've got people like the XL bully advocate above who claim they are dog lovers but demonstrate their utter selfishness and complete lack of empathy by refusing to show any consideration for dogs who have become reactive through no fault of their own, have become elderly and can feel vulnerable or simply just don't want to interact and rather than control her dogs simply says, not my problem.

I have a dog that I rehomed. I adopted her because I thought I could give her a better life than she had. But the fact that dogs are reliant on humans to 'give them a life' is in my view utterly wrong.
A poster further up said: "There's room for more animals than just humans on this planet...". But the fact is, there's not.
What I'd like to see is a drastic cut in the number of human beings on this planet and space for other animals to live natural lives. I'd like to see domestic dogs allowed to die out, they should be taken care of but no more breeding should take place and their ancestors - the majestic wolf - having space to live their own lives free from human interference.

I'm not sure but SOMETHING has to be done. Not just about the aggressive, large dogs which are bought as a status symbols, but about the idiot owners of all species who buy a dog then do not train them and allow them to cause a menace to other people.

I have no interest in your dog. Keep it to yourself. If you cannot train your dog to come back every single time you call it, then it should be on a lead.

On another thread someone said that in the US it is a legal requirement to have a dog on a lead in all public places. I would strongly support this, if you want your dog to run free then you book a space in one of the secure fields set up for this purpose. And by "lead" I mean one of the short metre long leather/cord ones, not those massive extending ones which are 20 feet long.

I'm a dog person and love them. But dogs should be on leads in public places. If you want your dog to run free, take them to a specific place that is safely fenced in. No one has the right to let their dog run free anywhere.

I also think we need to move away from the "culture" which leads dog owners to expect to be able to take their dogs anywhere and everywhere including restaurants, shops, other enclosed spaces.

Just no. A dog is an ANIMAL. Completely inappropriate.

Agreed! I was in a small coffee shop yesterday and a woman was in there with a dog the size of a small pony. Ridiculous.

the majority of dog owners are sensible. But the problematic ones ruin it for everyone
100% agree with this. What I don't agree is that 99.9% of dogs should be restricted because of the 0.1% that cause problems when ultimately, restricting the very large majority won't change the danger caused by the very few problematic ones.

My dog adores their free walk in the countryside and needs the run. We are 3mns drive away (or walking distance if we have more time). It would take much longer to drive to the enclosed dog of leash field). They are totally harmless, 5kilos of fur, never ever shown any sign of agression. They are 100% more at risk of other dogs attacking them then them attacking anything. I still would not want all dogs on the lead everywhere.