what to do about dog problem?!

[sundaysundae1]

i know this comes up time and time again on here, and some people have very strong opinions on the situation, but after yet another walk where my dog was harassed by an absolute monster off the lead, and another tragic dog bite story in the news, im frankly sick of it.

I have a beautifully natured retriever who comes everywhere with me. We have horses and access to land, and he can run within the grounds of the property which is all fenced off anyway. We also frequently go to dog fields and dog areas where they are allowed off the lead. But when walking in public- parks, streets, countryside, fields and basically everywhere else, he stays on the lead. He is fully trained and socialised and i would trust him with my life and he largely ignores other people and animals unless they stop to pet him, but he is a dog! They can do impulsive things. I dont trust that he wouldnt get hyper and run up to a family to say hello and accidentally knock over a child with excitement, or that he wouldnt run up to another dog to play. He wouldnt mean any harm, but not everybody likes other dogs and frankly i wouldnt want a strange dog running up to me or my kids. Just because i think he's the cutest, most adorable boy in the world doesnt mean that to someone else he's not a terrifying giant slobbery monster that could hurt them. Therefore he stays on the lead at all times.

i am sick to the back fucking teeth of other idiotic and selfish dog owners letting their badly behaved dogs off the lead to approach other people and dogs. he is on the lead. he doesnt want to say hello and neither do i. I just dont undestand the mindset that that behaviour is ok? its even scarier around livestock in rural areas- i dont care how well trained your dog is, NOBODY can guarantee their dog wont impulsively chase sheep or animals. Even if these owners are so selfish not to care about others- dont they realise their dog could be shot dead by the farmer?! if you love your dog so much, why would you risk their safety like that?!

and as for the discussion about dangerous breeds and the massive increase in bites, we absolutely need to change the law around dog ownership. We need to tighten up about certain dog breeds. Yes, all dogs can bite and kill including my retriever, but some of these dogs are built like hippos and have traits bred specifically for fighting or aggression, and are completely unsuitable for 99% of owners. The idea that anyone upon turning 18 can go and buy an XL bully with absolutely no training or licensing is insane. Im sick of excuses that Rover the american mastiff x pittie x malinois x XL bullie is a safe gentle giant who wouldnt harm a fly. Im sure he is, but if he followed his instincts and breed traits and ended up mauling someone, it would be much more catastrophic than from other dogs. From a dog owner perspective, i dread seeing these dogs because im terrified of them breaking free and ripping my dog to shreds. I was harassed and chased by an out of control XL bully/pitbull type dog whilst on my horse which i genuinely thought would maul my horse with me on it. This animal was built like a tank and it was the most terrifying moment of my life.

I also want to clarify that I've actually owned 2 dogs of a breed considered to be 'bad' and they were dogs with a working purpose. Dogs like malinois' are largely unsuitable for non working homes and we need to stop pretending otherwise.

But on the flip side, the problematic dog owners with out of control dangerous breeds will still find a way to own these dogs- after all pitbulls are banned yet still a relatively common dog. And if these problematic owners are prevented buying these dogs and get a less notorious breed, will this breed then end up becoming problematic too?

people mention dog licenses and tighter control of dog ownership but the problematic dog owners dont care about that and it wont make a difference

we have a real problem with some entitled dog owners but i honestly dont know what the solution is!

You should never, ever let your off lead dog run up to a dog that's on a lead, I don't care how friendly you think it is. NEVER.

The dog could be on the lead for many reasons. If your off lead dog gets in an on lead dog's face then it is entirely your fault if it gets bitten.

Typical response from an irresponsible dog owners Don't give a shit, it's your problem not mine.
My dog jumped on you, oh how cute he's so friendly. Oh you have asthma and could die from my attack triggered by my dog, but he's still so cute and maybe you shouldn't leave you house if you can't be around dogs. He scared the shit out of your child, well you should teach them to love dogs jumping up on them randomly when they are minding their own business.
In case you neglected to notice a 4 year was mauled to death by one of those cute dogs a few hours ago but I guess that is irrelevant in your world where you only care about your rights and screw everyone else.

'fyi XL bullies are naturally kind tempered'

Until they rip your throat out 👍🏻

OP I agree completely.

The insistence by many dog owners that their dog should never be encumbered by a lead is pure selfishness.

I have waited all my life to become a dog owner, I adore dogs and finally achieved my dream last year when I rehomed a retired racing greyhound whom I utterly adore. Why did I wait until the grand old age of 41? Because in my 20s I worked full time and our home was rented, in my 30s I had young children and we finally bought a house but had no spare cash to spend on a pet and consequently it's only now with older primary age children who I trust to treat a dog with respect, along with more financial security that I felt I could finally take the plunge. And after all that time, obviously I want my dog to be as contented as possible, but I will NEVER be letting him off lead in a public place because a) he can run like the wind and b) as a previous poster said 'his ears are purely decorative' 🤣

And yet I am expected to tolerate the off-lead dog brigade bouncing around my lovely gentle giant, he is very patient but sometimes after multiple encounters during a walk he will growl or snarl after one too many, because he is sick of being pestered in his own space when he is just trotting along minding his own business. And the owners always look affronted if I ask them to call their dog back but what else can I do? It can ruin our walks because we both get ever more stressed out waiting for the next inevitable encounter.

And as for anyone letting their dog loose near livestock, words fail me. What possible justification can you have. NONE. Your dog doesn't even have to touch them to cause ewes to miscarry from the sheer stress. It is inhumane to even consider inflicting that pain and distress on other living things just so your fluffball can have a good scamper about. Jesus wept..... Educate yourself and read the following.

www.nfu-cymru.org.uk/news-and-information/plea-to-protect-sheep-and-newborn-lambs-as-more-owners-let-dogs-run-free/

Neighbours were quoted saying they never saw the dog being walked. Surprise, surprise (!).

I do think that there are some things we could do relatively easily.

For a start, I have lost track of the number of people who have told me that their dog was badly bitten by another dog, but police won't/can't do anything unless the dog bites a human. If the vets were able to report every single dog-on-dog bite and then police take action, then we would quickly remove a lot of trouble dogs. Quite simple. Dog off lead and bites another dog, dog gets put down.

Which brings me to point number 2. We need to be prepared to put down dogs that cannot be socialised. I remember meeting a lady who told me she had 4 or 5 rescues at home, all agressive, and couldn't be walked/left with anyone else. She laughed and said - hope I never need an ambulance, they wouldn't be able to get to me the dogs would defend me and attack them. As a society we really need to accept that some dogs should be put down. Pictures of sad faces about our beloved family pet should be banned. We need to be more ruthless with the dogs we allow to live among us.

Which leads nicely on to ban all rescues coming in from overseas. There are so many poorly socialised dogs coming in and flooding the rescue centres.

Then make dog walkers be licensed and insured, and have a max of 3 dogs at one time.

And actually a good TV campaign along the lines of - how to be a sensible dog owner, including don't let your off-lead dog approach kids or dogs on lead. Your dog should be under control at all times, if you can't recall it, don't let it off, even if it is friendly.

We have a stupid attitude to dogs in this country. They are not our babies!
(I have a dog by the way, a rescue who is lead reactive to other dogs, but fine with people, he is walked on a lead, never in town park type places. We spend a lot of time avoiding other dogs, I am sick of 'friendly' little dogs running right across a big field to say hello while their owners hopelessly call them from the other side. They always call out - he's friendly. Well, mine isn't and I have deliberately walked half a field away from you. Recall your bloody dog)

@Pandaparty such a load bull whataboutery! In that case, relax gun laws, relax laws around knives, abolish smoking laws, allow people to drive with out seatbelts, abolish Children’s car seat legislation, abolish speed limits. The list is endless if you want to talk about risk. God are you really that stupid!

And it's YOUR FAULT for having your throat ripped out by this massive, strong, uncontrolled beast of an animal because you couldn't read its body language. 🙄

Seriously what is WRONG with some people. The only reason for getting this sort of dog is because you think it looks hard. Ban them.

2. We need to be prepared to put down dogs that cannot be socialised.

I also very much agree with this. So many threads on here about people who have bitey, aggressive dogs which they can't cope with and endless doggy-people piling on to suggest behaviourists and loads of expensive blood tests, and rehoming to an expert and breed rescues and whatever - just no. Aggressive dogs or dogs which cannot be trained should be put to sleep. End of story.

Whichever charity it is which says "we'll never put a healthy dog to sleep" - well they bloody well should, if it's a bitey, snarling, nervous nightmare of an animal which will never be able to live a normal life.

And importing problem/stray dogs from other parts of the world should be banned immediately.

@HufflepuffRavenclaw all the rescue places in my area say they won't put a healthy animal down and I think it's the norm now, not just one charity. Their fundraising probably depends on it.

Yes there was a thread recently about a lady who had a very reactive German shepherd. She'd had her for four years, so hadn't exactly not tried, and yet many posters were still telling her how horrible she'd be to have her PTS (though to be fair many were saying the opposite).

I also don't think it's right to import dogs from overseas, it's just a way of avoiding the requirements of UK rescues or to avoid paying for an expensive dog. I know some of the requirements of rescue centres are strict, but the many incidents show they need to be.

You should have to have a license to own a dog and anyone with an aggressive history / police file should be banned from owning one. You wouldn’t leave kids wit these people, yet they own a dog?!

Horse shit isn't disgusting it's vegetarian! And useful. It's totally different from dog poo or any other poo from a carnivorous animal (like humans come to that - I'd rather come across horse poo than human excrement).

Well, usually they have a dog and kids, hence why we get these tragedies.

But even hitherto gentle dogs can turn if something scares them. Nobody can be 100% sure their dog will never react badly to something.

My in-laws rehomed two cats (Cornish Rex types) when they had my husband's niece, because they showed signs of hurting the baby. But people won't do that now, they say the dog or cat is their fur baby and it isn't fair to rehome them. I think peoples' priorities are skewed.

That is not really fair. I have a police record, but that has nothing to do with dogs and has had no bearing on my suitability as a dog owner.
Dog breeders/rescues are also not entitled to carry out DBS checks either.

A lot of the UK rescue centres are importing dogs.

So should we ban all men because you can never be 100% sure the one you are with isn't a rapist or psycho killer? Or ban all doctors because you can never be sure the one you see isn't another Harold Shipman? Or ban all cars, because you can never be sure that the car driving along next to you won't suddenly crash?

Life comes with risks. We just need to be sensible. Ok, more education if helpful, more vetting of owners maybe. But no need to ban all dogs because of a few rare incidents.

But there is absolutely no need for anyone to own these types of dogs, especially non working family homes where the dog isn’t suited at all. It’s a recipe for disaster. Nobody needs to own one of those XL bullies, there are many other more suitable breeds that haven’t been bred specifically for killing!

and when you have dog owners who let their dogs off when they don’t have 100% recall and don’t always obey them, it adds even more problems.

There are restrictions in place on car speed and safety, doctors have rules and regulations to work to, men have to obey the law or they can be arrested. Similarly there should be restrictions on dog ownership, starting with keeping them away from children. Adults can take their chances as far as I'm concerned but kids haven't got a choice.

Sadly a similar story here, and it's usually the same people over and over, I'm sure they wait for me to leave and then follow because no matter when I leave to walk the dogs I seem to encounter them!

And my smaller dog was attacked before Christmas by 3 off lead terriers, on a side road, and obviously the guy with them didn't have enough hands to grab all 3, he didn't even call them back as they made their way over, but of course my dog 'must' have started it by growling or snapping according to him even though his 3 came over and were aggressive. Apparently my dog is just supposed to be fine by being approached by 3 dogs approaching like that.

And yes regarding the livestock. I have a spaniel who has already learned that flushing small furries or flappy things out of cover makes them run and it's a real buzz chasing them before she came to me (rehomed not from rescue but have known the dog since birth, unavoidable circumstances for the owners and I was in a position to help).
I'm never going to be more interesting than that quite honestly, her recall is solid while sniffing, looking for something to flush, doing normal doggy things, but once something runs it's game over, or would be if she were off lead.
I have lived here a long time and the footpaths go through several fields, some crop and some for stock and they're usually the same year in year out.
I avoid the stock fields permanently because it's just not worth it, and I don't let her off around the crop fields even though there's no animals around because she could follow a rabbit into one, and although she'd not be in the slightest bit interested in cows, sheep or horses and would be tracking the rabbit (has lived alongside stock of many types) her presence would cause the livestock distress. I don't want that and I don't want the dog shot.
If I go somewhere I'm not sure what is in the field then it's short lead, and you can usually tell by the gates/fencing/poaching of the ground/droppings around that it's inhabited by stock of some description, even if you can't see them.
She gets freedom off lead in the garden and the dog field, and I alternate where we go and what we do to keep it interesting.
There's just no need to put other people, other dogs and livestock at risk so you don't have to hold a lead if you haven't bothered to train, or if the dog has decorative ears (I love that phrase 🤣) despite training.

And when it comes to horses I've had countless interactions with bad mannered and out of control dogs going for horses, chasing horses and generally being unruly (but they're just being friendly 🙄) but I've yet to see a horse go for a dog unprovoked, I have witnessed a few dogs booted - but usually because they're hanging off a back leg or tail so you know, understandable really!

"Media now reporting the dog involved in the latest incident is an “American bulldog”.

Well, I hope that whatever idiots bought that dog in order to look 'hard' feels great now. Well done, your monstrous dog killed a child.

And I don't care how presumptuous and judgemental that makes me sound. We all know the type of people the owners will be.

A lot of the UK rescue centres are importing dogs.

Surely not, @Cherry60 . Why on earth would you import problem dogs to keep them locked up?

@HufflepuffRavenclaw because they treat them very differently over there. DMIL was involved with a rescue at one point as if they became a hassle they would go through the cage and beat the dogs to death with a hammer while the others watched. Apparently.

Sometimes people don’t get these sort of dogs to look hard, uneducated people genuinely believe that all dogs can be fixed with love and affection or that breed and genetics doesn’t matter when it comes to the outcome of a scenario. Comments on this thread prove that people do think like this and they think they can be the one to ‘fix’ the problem. Science has proven genetics has a huge influence on how a dog (or any animal) turns out along with environmental influences from as early as in utero, this can’t be undone by someone very easily…if at all despite what people say about ‘deed not breed’.

There needs to be tighter regulation on the sale of all dogs IMO. If I could I would make it so all dogs of any breed could only be sold by registered, fully inspected breeders who can only breed from a limited number of bitches who are health tested and also temperament tested.

I would also make it a requirement that all dogs being rehomed are passed on via a reputable licensed rescue and must be assessed by a behaviourist. It would mean the banning of sale of all dogs not being sold by the original breeder without a proper behavioural assessment in order to place them in the correct homes.

I would also not object to all dogs being on a lead in public places. I do this anyway because I’m not deluded enough to think my dogs are more important than anyone else.

It will never happen though, because when people want a dog they want it now today despite whether they are suitable for the dog or not (as proven by the amount of people importing rather than going to reputable rescues because it’s so much easier to get one- maybe that should tell you something then?)

Dogs shouldn’t spend their lives on a lead. I agree that unless you can exercise a larger breed properly you shouldn’t have one.
But equally, cats aren’t designed to spend their lives indoors so people shouldn’t have a cat either if they have nowhere to let them out.