Alcholism opinions

[Dedoodedodi]

Hi, I'm not new to Mumsnet but have decided to name change, I'm after people's honest opinions on alcholism and wether it is a illness/disease or a self inflicted lifestyle choice, and if that changes somewhere in-between the two, so what may start as bad choices and blows into alcholism and the related Ill health and symptoms that comes from that where is the line drawn between choices and illness? I don't want to say who I am in this equation and why I'm interested in other opinions, as I want to be unbiased as possible. Alcholism does obviously become a life threatening illness in the later stages, if you for example had someone really close to you that you know normally personality and the way they are is lovely and fine but over time slipped more under would you say they had a disease they couldn't fully control? Same as if you got cancer for example, you can't control if you get that or not to best of ability, there's no rules around do or do not do this or that to avoid it, is it the same league or is it different, and if it is, then why please? Can it change someone's personality over time that you knew to be a normal kind quiet person, is it a illness they cant help,the person, combination? I will like opinions to wrap my head around this issue. Thankyou

It is an illness that gets progressively worse. It's very hard for someone in active addiction to get out of it but it is possible with a LOT of support and determination. Most people wouldn't choose to develop an alcohol addiction would they?
I see the argument from both sides, my ex drank himself to death in his 40s. I've been angry at him for not trying harder to get better, but services are stretched already and it takes a hell of a light of fight to come out the other side of addiction. I now choose to accept that he was too ill to get better.

It's an illness or a predisposition, but once the person in question knows they have it, they are just as obliged as anyone else to seek help and work hard towards finding recovery. My late husband was an alcoholic. When I married him, he was a great guy - smart, funny, hard working, caring and yes, a really great dad. Then life events hit him and even though he knew there was alcoholism in his family (his uncle and his brother) he turned to alcohol. And when he realised he was dependent, he simply told me that he was OK with that and that he was not going to do anything about it. He didn't, and ultimately the drink killed him, but not before he did an enormous amount of damage to his DC and to me.

So there's an element of illness to it, but there is also an element of choice.

Addiction does change people - in active addiction, your brain will crave the substance and every choice you make will be driven by that. It means you will lie, deceive, manipulate - anything to make sure you get what you're craving when you're craving it. People in active addiction are awful to be around.

Recovery is possible, but only the alcoholic themselves can make it happen. My sister's partner is also an alcoholic, but he is now 12 years sober. It's incredibly hard work, it means looking inside yourself to work out why you are turning to alcohol, but it can be done.

No I understand nobody would want or want anyone they care about to have alcohol dependency or any other drugs too, but what started at very first as normal drinking with friends on weekends etc, to really quite slowly change into day drinking, big personality changes, reliance on alcohol, severe withdrawal symptoms, I do believe it is a illness, I can see signs of the underlying person I know at times,almost back to normal when doing ok, but doesn't last too long, bad stretch again, then a few weeks of good/normal personality again, I know this person to be really kind nice caring person, the differences in personality I see are quite staggering, I know she is still in there, I see the guilt and upset, and then it recycles round and round. I think once a line has been crossed it does become something they didn't ask for, don't want and can't always control? So although I've heard people say and judge it's not a illness, I think in future there will be a lot more understanding around this 'illness'. I honestly believe she's not actively choosing this,no more than I could chose to get something or not, it's mostly something we can't control? Although with this kind of thing, they maybe start with choices,make the wrong choices and by then it really is a real illness that is then as hard as any other illness you might get to influence, ie..not a lot, if I got a cancer next year I can do my best to be healthy as possible but I can't control wether it would go into remission or possibly spread even if I was the healthiest I could be, is this not the same after a certain point?

It's an illness. Addiction is a mental health problem, and mental illness is as valid as physical illness.

However, I don't think anyone should feel obligated to a family member or friend with alcoholism if they refuse to do anything to help themselves. It's different to cancer for example, people with cancer have no choice.

I don’t believe in the disease model. It is an addiction like any other. It is no more of a disease than addiction to smoking, gambling, porn etc. it is often the result of mental health difficulties, usually anxiety or depression.

To suggest it’s a ‘lifestyle choice’ is preposterous. Nobody would strive to be an alcoholic.

Alcoholism itself isn’t life threatening is it? It’s the knock on effect on internal organs, the risk of suicide or the impact of not eating well, and lack of self care, getting into accidents etc.

I know of a few functioning alcoholics (bottle of wine a night) who have maintained that level of drinking over years. They wax and wane but haven’t spiralled into morning drinking or a bottle of vodka a night. I don’t believe it necessarily gets progressively worse for all individuals.

Im prepared to be told I’m wrong but I have plenty of (albeit anecdotal) experience of alcoholism.

Going thru this with family member and have researched it. When someone keeps drinking it changes their brain, then it becomes a physical need rather than a psychological one. So it is deemed an illness. Its hard not to blame the person for not wanting to give up despite what its doing to them and the people around them. I just live in hope

That's the confusing bit beezkneez, you say cancer example no one can choose or change the direction of what happens,we can all agree on that I think, addiction issues/alcholism although did start with choices,if you never ever drunk alcohol then you can't get alcholism, once it goes past a certain line does it not become less of a choice and a illness/disease, physiological changes etc, by the time people get the physical health symptoms or bad affects from the addiction then it's probably not just choice?

@Paperdoll44 your first paragraph contradicts itself - if alcoholism is a symptom of mental ill health then it fits into the illness model. FWIW I agree with you. My late husband had incredibly low self esteem as well as depression. He didn't address those things either, he expected a pill to sort everything.

Alcoholism absolutely is life threatening. Heart disease, liver disease and cancer are all directly related to how much a person drinks. Alcohol related heart disease killed my husband, alcohol induced dementia destroyed my mother. A bottle of wine is one thing and some people can live a long time on that, but my husband and my mother drank a lot more than that. My husband put away 140 units a week that I knew of and it was more than that because I found out after he died that he had been reprimanded multiple times for drinking at work. I'd estimate another 50% on top of what I knew, and that does damage, quickly. My mother would go through a 75 cc bottle of spirits a day in her last 2 years.

Alcohol definitely changes you both short and long term. I think the expression ' in vino veritas ' is very misused and misinterpreted. It just means you will say things best left unsaid after too much drink.

Not that 'lousy drunk ' you is the real you.

Please don't compare someone with an alcohol problem to somebody battling cancer.

It's offensive.

Addiction is a mental Illness yes, but you're not born addicted to alcohol. (Well some sad cases yes but that's not what I'm on about.)
You have to drink a significant amount over a significant amount of time (which IS a choice) to then become addicted. Which then leads to mental illness / addiction.

But is it in the same league as someone battling cancer, gruelling chemotherapy and surgeries, losing their hair and appearance and their lives probably wont be the same again, that's even if they survive the cancer? No. That's offensive.

I wish I knew. DH died of cirrhosis three weeks ago, still claiming he didn't have a problem.

I think there's a genetic element to it. I don't understand why he wouldn't have stopped if he could. He lost everything, family, home, job, dignity.

Quamadreen. Why on earth are you offended? It’s shit when people get cancer but it’s also shit when people fall into self destructive habits due to poor mental health.

Both are sad. It’s not a competition.

I believe it is a response to trauma mainly. Same as drug addiction.

Addiction is a mental Illness yes, but you're not born addicted to alcohol. (Well some sad cases yes but that's not what I'm on about.)
You have to drink a significant amount over a significant amount of time (which IS a choice) to then become addicted. Which then leads to mental illness / addiction.

@quarmadreen you are forgetting that people use alcohol to self-medicate existing mental illness (also drugs of various kinds). So the picture is not as simple as you would have it be.

The running in families component I think is mainly inter generational trauma. I highly highly recommend Gabor Mate on this. He is absolutely excellent.

If people are using alcohol to self medicate an existing mental illness, that's their choosing. They've chosen to do so.

Could it be argued some cancers are self inflicted (through poor diet, lack or exercise, smoking etc) as with alcoholism?

Alcoholism is usually rooted in poor mental health, rather than causing it. And the illness in many ways, as it progresses, is as gruelling as cancer.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree but throwing that in the mix. It's obviously hugely complex and as a country we have a very poor record of dealing with the root causes of alcohol related illnesses, a lot to do with the social acceptance of drinking.

I think the exact definition isn’t that important. There are some facts about alcoholism that are important. No one would choose to be an alcoholic, and those that are really have very little control over it. In my opinion it’s reasonable to be sympathetic to alcoholics (which is what the disease model promotes I think) but also recognise that alcoholism has many many antisocial symptoms that it’s reasonable to protect yourself from in a loved one.

i don’t know anyone who has got better from alcoholism (and I know 2 people who have died from it and know a few others with it) I view it as something that’s not really fully curable I guess, so have (after some horrible family situations) come to the view that your responsibility towards an alcoholic is to recognise the situation, not enable them, provide support where possible, but get away from them to protect yourself. That’s not to say people don’t over come it, but the solution is harder when they are enabled. I think that’s another reason why alcoholism is so destructive - people want to help their loved ones by enabling them, when in reality that won’t resolve the issue and might even worsen it. It goes against every instinct you have.

It is a disease but it starts as a lifestyle choice. It starts with what many see as normal, such as "just one" glass of wine every evening "to unwind". Then it becomes a bottle etc. Sadly, with time, some progress to alcoholism before they even notice it.

Sorry if that was offensive, didn't mean to be, I just wanted opinions on illness or choice which there is a lot of differing opinions on, I don't think anyone would choose either, yet addiction does start with initial choice, most people* are ok and can use responsibily,but not all and where in the pattern does it change, can anyone pinpoint where it changes from normal use, I don't know where the moment was where it crossed the line and things went downhill very quickly, the incline was slow and almost normal but the downcline was very fast. I think there is a lot f judgement and misunderstanding sometimes, and most people in the UK do have times where they will drink socially, maybe use some drugs, a percentage won't be ok but I think it does change at some point and crosses that line into something a lot more serious,and it is a life threatening disease in many ways too.

Quarmadreen - I’m not sure you know enough about this issue to argue your case.

if you were in intense constant physical pain and only wine relieved it, would you drink the wine?

Emotional pain can be as debilitating.

@quarmadreen your attitude towards mental ill health needs adjusting. The pain is just as real as that of any physical illness, and the stigma that still exists makes seeking help far harder than it is with a physical illness. A little empathy would become you.

Alcoholism sadly runs in my family. Generations of it.
Looking at the family members who have become alcoholics, there is a strong history of trauma.
I don't think it's as simple as some people are making it out to be. Yes, people choose to drink to begin with. They don't choose for it to get out of control. It creeps up on them and tells them it's not a problem.

A lot of misinformation here. It's not a debate whether it's a disease, it's been recognised as a disease for over 50 years by medical professionals. Secondly the pp saying you have to drink a lot over a significant amount of time etc is wrong. Addiction is absolutely something you can be born with, you don't always need to have trauma in your life either. Plenty of people with healthy upbringing end up in AA, a lot are very young too.

I think it is very harmful to tell alcoholics that they have a disease. It reinforces the idea that there is no element of choice or control and people become very frightened and continue to drink to blank out the fear.

What I find interesting about alcohlism is that some people can overcome it and recover and some can't. I don't know what the reason for the difference is.

Where I think we are lacking as a society is the understanding/sympathy/empathy/whatever we give to the families of alcoholics.