Alcholism opinions

[Dedoodedodi]

Hi, I'm not new to Mumsnet but have decided to name change, I'm after people's honest opinions on alcholism and wether it is a illness/disease or a self inflicted lifestyle choice, and if that changes somewhere in-between the two, so what may start as bad choices and blows into alcholism and the related Ill health and symptoms that comes from that where is the line drawn between choices and illness? I don't want to say who I am in this equation and why I'm interested in other opinions, as I want to be unbiased as possible. Alcholism does obviously become a life threatening illness in the later stages, if you for example had someone really close to you that you know normally personality and the way they are is lovely and fine but over time slipped more under would you say they had a disease they couldn't fully control? Same as if you got cancer for example, you can't control if you get that or not to best of ability, there's no rules around do or do not do this or that to avoid it, is it the same league or is it different, and if it is, then why please? Can it change someone's personality over time that you knew to be a normal kind quiet person, is it a illness they cant help,the person, combination? I will like opinions to wrap my head around this issue. Thankyou

Absolutely no comparison between the two. They’re just not similar or comparable much like many different afflictions and health problems.
but what I will point out is, often times, the mental illness leads to alcoholism, not the other way around.
it certainly leads to more mental health issues and deterioration of health, but it does not develop out of thin air, often times, those who become dependant, turn to drink to dampen down the noise of their poor mental health/PTSD/memories/intrusive thoughts and so on, what starts out as a coping mechanism turns into a secondary and horrible Illness.

im not sure of the disease narrative myself, simply because it doesn’t just happen, but it’s not entirely a choice, most people don’t realise they’re in deep until it’s too late.
I have seen the terrifying implications of detoxing first hand which also frightens and discourages them to come off alcohol for fear of that too. It’s a nasty circle of self abuse and harm!

Yes, every person I know being the qualifier. No one is claiming this is standard across all addicts.

@Vivi0 After wading through all the responses on this subject, your reply is the closest one in accurately answering the original question. When treating alcoholism or AUD it is the trauma behind it that needs to be treated. Mental health resources are severely underfunded and/or understaffed. As for the cancer argument some posters are using. Alcohol is responsible for 15 types of cancer, even in small amounts, not just consuming it at an alcoholic level. There was a study and they listed in reverse order what was the number one killer. Smoking came in at number 9 and number one was alcohol over every other drug. Yet despite this, there are no warnings on the bottles like there are warnings on a cigarette packet. Alcohol is still glorified, yet it causes more crime, more hospital admissions and more deaths than any other drug out there.

How can you not believe in addiction but believe in physical dépendance?! They are the same thing.

I wonder if your sister would agree to go into rehab? She wouldn't be happy with the idea I'm sure but she will get progressively worse. It's a progressive illness. I've been there. If she needs anyone to talk to I can talk to her (I'm a girl - it's not obvious from my username). Otherwise AA is really helpful. Nothing is expected of you. She can just sit and listen.

I use the term alcohol use disorder as opposed to alcoholism.

I consider it not a disease personally but an addiction same as any other drug addiction.

I don’t like the term self inflicted as that seems to me to be loaded with blame and I don’t find it helpful. It is of course caused by people’s own actions but alcohol is addictive and I think people need to stop viewing people becoming addicted to an addictive substance not as some kind of moral failing but that something that is fairly likely to happen, especially with such a socially acceptable drug that is pushed so widely in society.

That said while alcohol addiction may not be an individual’s fault in that no one ever sets out to be an addict it is their responsibility.

for disclosure I was a heavy drinker, bottle of wine a night for years - now nearly 18 months sober. I never started that way but because I was addicted to alcohol it crept up. I was “functioning” in that I had a house, my kids, a good job and nice lifestyle etc but that’s why I don’t like the term alcoholic. It conjures up images of the person who has hit rock bottom or swigging meths on a park bench. It “others” those people and makes people who are knocking back the prosecco and pink gins think that because they are not on the park bench and lost everything they cannot be that bad.

When treating alcoholism or AUD it is the trauma behind it that needs to be treated.

Lou670 a couple of questions: in practically everyone’s life there will have been some trauma - some more than others, obviously. How does the alcoholic or addict know which incident made them drink? I mean, they may think it’s a recent trauma but it may be something from way back.

Also, is it known how many people got sober from this method of treating it?

Sorry, I forgot to answer part of the question you were asking in the first place!

I quit for lots of reasons. But one reason I had noticed latterly was because I felt it was changing me as a person. Don’t get me wrong I was just a quiet drunk, I wasn’t nasty or abusive or violent or anything like that. But I felt even when I was sober my personality was changing, I was becoming harder and I didn’t like it.

a lot of people do turn to numbing or addictive substances to deal with trauma. But not everyone. I’ve had a pretty lovely and cushy life really. Still ended up addicted to alcohol. I started drinking socially or to give myself something to do in the evenings but o got addicted and my tolerance went up.

My gut feeling is that some people have a predisposition to alcoholism. I doubt it’s to do with hedonism or moral weakness or anything like that. The life of a true alcoholic, who drinks a bottle of wine at 10 in the morning, is a wretched, miserable one. It’s not something you drift into.

In general, I’m against telling people they’re victims. Tell someone they’re a victim and they will give up. Much better to be compassionate but firm. People should be encouraged to pull themselves together and face their responsibilities. That said, I have enormous sympathy for alcoholics, especially when it’s rooted in trauma. I feel the same about heroin addicts. Many people go down that route to blot out some horror from their past.

@Southwestten It is usually linked to unresolved childhood trauma. This may not come out in a person until later on in life. It is there but the individual may have hidden it as cannot deal with it or may have used other coping mechanisms. When these coping mechanisms no longer work then they will turn to something else. In this case alcohol.

Treatment for the trauma in the form of CBT, DBT and other methods does not always work. Some traumas are so embedded and deep seated that even with years of treatment it is still there. It really is a catch 22 between Mental Health and AUD. You have to be sober in order to be receptive to Mental Health treatment, yet some individuals wait so long that they carry on drinking, then they can't be treated. There is no ideal solution and many individuals fall between the cracks.

Ironically my relative died of mouth cancer caused by alcoholism so where does that fit in with your theory?
Cancer can be self inflicted

alcoholism causes malnutrition, osteoporosis, strokes, TIAs, cancer , liver disease.

it starts as an addiction often relating to other mental traumas in life.

It’s an illness BUT its also very very difficult for families and children of alcoholics to accept it as an illness because of how it affects their lives and shapes the person they become…and they are not wrong either

Lou670 thank you for answering my question.

What a terrible thing alcoholism and addiction is for everyone - the addicts and alcoholics themselves and their families. Apparently 70% of violent crime is committed under the influence.
Apart from the damage inflicted on the sufferer and their families and those close to them, also the cost to the NHS and police etc. The ripples of damage go out a long way.
There isn’t a single upside to addiction.

The only thing I know definitively about alcoholism is I won't tolerate it in myself or anyone with it.

This is very much my position on it. My father was a (largely) functional alcoholic, my ex husband a less functional alcoholic. My father managed to live out his life without serious health incident until his late 80s and kept it from spiralling out of control but alcohol poisoned his relationship with almost everyone in his life and his behaviour towards his family when he was drinking caused me a lot of psychological harm.

My ex husband still drinks and in his case alcohol is closely related to poor mental health and I was terrorised by his alcohol fuelled moods until I eventually kicked him out.

It has left me feeling very triggered by being around heavy drinkers. Although I drink myself (socially and moderately), I loathe being around people exhibiting aggressive or unpleasant behaviour caused by alcohol and I refuse to have people in my life who think have an unhealthy relationship with it. There just are no upsides to having relationships with people who have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol.

My perspective on this is that it doesn't really matter if someone has an illness or is choosing to be in addiction. They may deserve my compassion but they don't have the right to inflict it on me or my family and my right to self-protection outweighs their need to be enabled. Selfish, maybe, but the harm done by alcoholics to the people close to them is incalculable.

This is how I feel too. My father is a recovered alcoholic- he's been sober since I was about 20 and I'm very proud of his achievement.

I think the disease model can be really difficult to hear when you've had a really difficult experience living with an alcoholic. My dad is completely different without alcohol, but I can remember him coming home from a meeting (might have been AA, not sure) and telling me eagerly that he now knows he has a disease and none of it was his fault. I experienced some pretty terrifying and threatening behaviour throughout my childhood and a lot of emotional abuse, and it really felt that I was being told that it was something I had to just suck up because it wasn't really 'him.'

I'm not saying that alcoholism isn't a disease, but I can really understand a lot of PPs' positions on it.

Meant to add, I agree with the need to protect yourself. I couldn't be around my dad if he started drinking again, it would just be too triggering and scary.

I'm pretty much teetotal- have one or two drinks on special occasions but that's it. I've got some friends who like to drink quite a bit but they're nice to be around, so that's not an issue for me. But I could never have any kind of relationship with someone who drank in a way that made them unpredictable and angry.

It is a illness made up of a traumatic event. I had alcoholism at 25 after a bad relationship ended

@Southwestten Yes you a right it causes more crime than anything else yet it is still legal where other drugs are not. I don't know of anyone spending time in police custody for smoking a cigarette! More often than not people are arrested and they have no idea of what for as they are in blackout. They can't remember what they have done.

The shift around alcohol has started. There are more and more bars popping up that are non alcohol bars and the younger generation are now more educated on the dangers of alcohol. They are trying to get it passed through that warnings are put on bottles of alcohol like they are on cigarettes. Also alcohol is not hidden away like cigarettes are. It is everywhere you look. It is also cancer forming. It really is unbelievable that it is so readily available and still legal.

It's perfectly sensible to protect yourself from people who are addicted to alcohol (or any other substance). It's also normal to feel conflicting things all at the same time. I still do even now my husband has been dead over 4 years. At times I'm sad and angry at him for not finding the strength to admit he had a problem and address it, but I am also sad for the miserable way he was living his life at the end - he too lost everything. I hate him for the abuse he heaped on the DC and me but I also remember the man I married. This is why I would always advocate self care and self protection first.

If you can’t go without it, then you should stop it.

We are typically creatures of habit and if something seems to work once it tends to be repeated, unfortunately alcohol requires more each time to work until in some cases there are negative consequences.

The benefit vs the consequence for themselves comes into play and many don’t consider the consequence to others in the mix.

Plus, alcohol affects people differently. My mum only needs a sip to give her permission to be obnoxious. Some people are actually “nicer” when they drink a glass or two.

I think my point is that it is a very sociable acceptable addiction that is very difficult to monitor and manage.

Also, you need to stop something yourself too. Something “harmless” (nothing enjoyable is!) that is part of your identity.

Experience just how hard it is to give something up when you feel it is ok.

This has been so interesting to read. I have an alcoholic DH and I'm never sure whether to accept the disease theory or not. He went from someone who always liked a drink and always got several in at last orders to a full blown bottle of vodka a day alcoholic who, when relapsing, spends most of his time unconscious and falls a lot causing untold damage to himself and the house.

He definitely drank to mask social anxiety when he was younger so there is a link to mental health issues there. He also experienced a trauma about 7 years before the real spiral started and never addressed it. The situation he is in now makes more sense to me having read all these posts today. He has had periods of sobriety over the last 13 years which I class as his "proper" alcoholic years, some as long as 12 months, but right now he is in the depths of a relapse/recovery cycle with the recovery periods lasting about 5 weeks. It's absolutely horrid to live with him when he is drinking. He's never violent or verbally abuse but it's horrid to be around. He basically lives in the lounge and the rest of us leave him to it and live in the rest of the house. Alcohol has changed him over the years. When sober he is often short tempered, miserable and not the kind person I met and married all those years ago. He does loads around the house when sober but I guess that's just making up for his shitty behaviour when drinking. It's a desperately sad situation for him, for me and for our DC.

@Abba123 there are plenty of enjoyable things that are harmless! Caffeine for instance is addictive, but has been shown to be beneficial in moderation. I need my one mug a day, I get a headache if I don't have it, but that one mug is all I have and in that quantity it is protective. Harmful or harmless are also not simple concepts.

@Anjelika please consider protecting yourself and your children from this cycle of misery. Alcohol addiction in a parent has a massive effect on children - look up NACOA and read some of the stories on there. However hard it is to get there, in your situation and after so many years, leaving is the best thing to do for yourself and your DC.