Alcholism opinions

[Dedoodedodi]

Hi, I'm not new to Mumsnet but have decided to name change, I'm after people's honest opinions on alcholism and wether it is a illness/disease or a self inflicted lifestyle choice, and if that changes somewhere in-between the two, so what may start as bad choices and blows into alcholism and the related Ill health and symptoms that comes from that where is the line drawn between choices and illness? I don't want to say who I am in this equation and why I'm interested in other opinions, as I want to be unbiased as possible. Alcholism does obviously become a life threatening illness in the later stages, if you for example had someone really close to you that you know normally personality and the way they are is lovely and fine but over time slipped more under would you say they had a disease they couldn't fully control? Same as if you got cancer for example, you can't control if you get that or not to best of ability, there's no rules around do or do not do this or that to avoid it, is it the same league or is it different, and if it is, then why please? Can it change someone's personality over time that you knew to be a normal kind quiet person, is it a illness they cant help,the person, combination? I will like opinions to wrap my head around this issue. Thankyou

I have family members dealing with this right now. For those that say it is not a disease and cannot be "caught", I would suggest you research some of the details regarding inherited alcoholism.

Likewise - to the people who suggest it is a "life style choice", then so are SOME forms of cancer - lung cancer from smoking etc.

The physical dependency in alcoholism is frightening. You can go "cold turkey" from many drugs (opiates etc.) - you will feel like a complete and utter hole in the ground, and want to die, but you will not actually die of withdrawal symptoms. In alcoholism there is a literal physical dependency - you stop getting it, you die.

So yes, it is a disease, and like any other potentially fatal disease, physical or mental, it can tear a family apart. And it is.

I think I just find it quite difficult, I didn't want to say as just wanted opinions with no basis to them, but it is my sibling, she's smart,pretty, kind, I sometimes just don't know how it got so bad,and then things went downhill really quite quick,I not talking a bottle of wine a night, I'm talking about all day pretty much drinking, at times, not always, as I said we will maybe have a good few weeks or months when she doesn't drink and seems to be doing better,and we see her old self we know, but it will change again at some point to a few weeks of heavy drinking again, probably a litre of vodka every 2 days all day topping up, maybe more that is hidden even, we know when she is drinking as the change in personality is so big, I just wish she wouldn't or didn't have this as she has so much going for her and she is now getting serious health consequences and social consequences and I think it's pushing her further in,is this the illness? The denial? I am going to look up al anon, I don't want her to think it's all ok but I don't want her to bury her head and carry on, when on a big bender she will drink around 5 or 6 litres of vodka over a week and that is a lot of units above

I'm not saying mental illness is any less than physical. Where did I say that? And where have I lacked empathy? Bit of a reach there but okay. I said the start of alcohol abuse is a CHOICE. If you CHOOSE to self medicate your mental illness with alcohol, you are choosing to go down a slippery slope. Which then progresses to being an alcoholic. Which, as I said above, is then a mental illness.

Maybe read what I wrote before spouting on about me not being empathetic. I have cancer myself and an alcoholic mother so know both ends of the sword. So maybe stop jumping to conclusions yourself. No need for the defensive attitude.

I don't believe it's a disease.

I don't actually believe in addiction although physical dependency is real.

Using substances to that point is a trauma reaction/coping mechanism. No one happy becomes addicted to drugs or alcohol.

Like many things, I'd say it's a mix between the two. There are factors that make it far more likely to happen to some people than others, and its hard to stop once it starts, but there are also choices you can make, and many people do manage to stop. I think it's a bloody hard situation to be in, but doesn't remove all personal agency.

Choice or not, I believe that those around an alcoholic have the right, and responsibility, to set boundaries to protect their own safety and happiness.

If people are using alcohol to self medicate an existing mental illness, that's their choosing. They've chosen to do so.

that’s far too simplistic @quarmadreen the mental torment that some people suffer is unbearable and so they reach for alcohol / drugs to turn it off, to get release from the torture, albeit temporarily. Nobody chooses to spiral into alcoholism. It’s very easy to sit in judgement when you have no idea what it feels like to suffer poor mental health.

How do you know I don't know what it feels like to have poor mental health?

It's incredibly hard work, it means looking inside yourself to work out why you are turning to alcohol, but it can be done.

Pointythings my father blamed everyone and everything for why he turned to alcohol particularly my long-suffering mother. Alanon says about family members ‘you didn’t cause it, you can’t control it, you can’t cure it’.

I agree with that and I certainly don’t think my mother or anyone else in the family was to blame for my father’s drinking.

@LindorDoubleChoc I think it is very harmful to tell alcoholics that they have a disease. It reinforces the idea that there is no element of choice or control and people become very frightened and continue to drink to blank out the fearl

Please do less thinking. You have pretty much completely contradicted the entire concept of addiction. Would you tell someone overweight or obese the same thing?

I don't believe it's a disease, unless you class fag addiction or heroin addiction as diseases. Alcohol is poison though, so over time it can damage your brain and internal organs which will make you very sick indeed.

According to a liver transplant surgeon that I sadly have reason to know ‐ personality changes, trouble with authorities due to drinking and drinking in the morning to relieve a hangover are all markers for future liver disease.

Regardless of whether some recognise it as a disease, it is speculation.

Describing it as a disease is not helpful in my opinion (as Lindor stated). It implies that it is an affliction and this can make the battle to overcome alcoholism seem even more daunting. It can seem as though you have to battle the forces of nature alongside your own demons.

I think it’s far healthier to recognise alcoholism as a self destructive coping strategy. That way the implication is that it can be overcome (for some).

@quarmadreen maybe you do know what it is like to experience mental illness. Your view however remains simplistic and unempathetic. Just because you have not needed to turn to alcohol or drugs to self medicate, that does not mean everyone can be like you. Decisions made in the face of torment are not a matter of free choice. They're akin to putting someone in a situation where they are under torture and then telling them that if they push the red button, their torment will end - but someone will die. It is not possible to make fully rational decisions in that situation and it is naive to think otherwise.

@Dedoodedodi you cannot help your sister. That's harsh, but it is the truth. Al-Anon is for relatives of alcoholics, not the alcoholics themselves (that's AA), but Either Al-Anon or SMART Family&Friends would be helpful for you.

Actually, telling addicts that they have a disease that they can't control isn't always indicated.

@TomatoCultivator my late husband was the same. It was my fault, it was the kids being so badly behaved (they absolutely were not!), it was the people at his work (for pulling him up on poor performance and commenting that he smelled of drink). It was everyone but not him.

By contrast my sister's DP worked extremely hard to overcome the damage caused by his dysfunctional upbringing and the trauma caused by his abusive wife and got sober. The difference was his ability to admit he had a problem and he needed to act.

Not a disease or illness.

It will lead to serious illness obviously but it all starts with a choice made.

Yep. I woke up one day and made the choice to be an alcoholic

Excellent decision I made.

Pointythings, you talk about this issue with a lot of sensitivity, compassion and insight.

Yes I would. I am obsese but I don't think I have a disease and no options.

@tonystarksrighthandlikewise did you go out and catch alcoholism?
Or did you use alcohol as a crutch to get you through a bad time?

@Paperdoll44 thanks, it comes from bitter experience, as you may have gathered. I co-facilitate a local support group for people who have relatives who are in addiction so these are questions we see a lot. Both hardline models are actually unhelpful. The 'it's a disease, they can't help themselves' model keeps people enabling their loved ones and keeps them ensnared in chaotic and painful lives. The 'it's a choice, they're fully responsible' fails to acknowledge the link with mental ill health and past trauma and so hinders recovery. It's a complex phenomenon, simplistic explanations help no-one. Ultimately what really matters if that you have someone in your life who is in addiction, you need to learn that protecting yourself is not a selfish decision. It's essential.

I think it’s far healthier to recognise alcoholism as a self destructive coping strategy. That way the implication is that it can be overcome (for some).

I totally agree with this

Fantastic words @pointythings and very pertinent to me who has watched a sibling destroy themselves with alcohol and even after a liver transplant and 6 months sobriety they are still not eating so destroying themselves that way instead.

Yes of course you can be physically dependent on alcohol and it's scary to witness. But people do still recover! They become recovering alcoholics like Anne Robinson or Anthony Hopkins or Frank Skinner or Barry Humphries or Russel Brand.

As I said, I find it interesting that there are some who can recover and some who can't and I don't understand the difference between them. I don't believe it has anything to do with their physical dependence, more on whether they have that spark of a survival instinct and wanting to get better. Some are sadly committing suicide very slowly and seem to accept this.

It's not that simple though, is it?
Someone may have made a choice to drink socially. They may even have made a choice to drink daily. But after a point, the choice is taken away and it's a physically need.
Alcoholism itself is a disease. A nasty one, because it convinces the alcohol they don't have a disease.

I wonder if the "opinion" among those here see suicide as a "choice"?