Alcholism opinions

[Dedoodedodi]

Hi, I'm not new to Mumsnet but have decided to name change, I'm after people's honest opinions on alcholism and wether it is a illness/disease or a self inflicted lifestyle choice, and if that changes somewhere in-between the two, so what may start as bad choices and blows into alcholism and the related Ill health and symptoms that comes from that where is the line drawn between choices and illness? I don't want to say who I am in this equation and why I'm interested in other opinions, as I want to be unbiased as possible. Alcholism does obviously become a life threatening illness in the later stages, if you for example had someone really close to you that you know normally personality and the way they are is lovely and fine but over time slipped more under would you say they had a disease they couldn't fully control? Same as if you got cancer for example, you can't control if you get that or not to best of ability, there's no rules around do or do not do this or that to avoid it, is it the same league or is it different, and if it is, then why please? Can it change someone's personality over time that you knew to be a normal kind quiet person, is it a illness they cant help,the person, combination? I will like opinions to wrap my head around this issue. Thankyou

@BethDuttonsTwin I agree, early diagnosis of neurodivergence means the ability to equip young people with effective coping strategies, which mitigates against the risk of addiction. Pretty much every parent in my support group has that issue with their DC. Some have managed to get the diagnosis and the support and it has been crucial to their ability to recover from their addiction. I despair of the people (here on this thread and out there in the world) who just take the simplistic view, dismiss it as a lifestyle choice and are unwilling to offer sympathy and support that could actually bring about change.

100% this. Being ND in a NT world creates its own problems which if not managed brings its own trauma to live with and as a parent with at least 2 diagnosed ND kids the input to support them with coping strategies is daily at the moment aged 18 and 12. If they were being denied this and were trying to adapt themselves without support I think it would be a really painful experience for them.

My ex is an alcoholic and so is my sibling. Both began drinking in an attempt to lessen the symptoms of their mental illness. My sibling has schizophrenia and was very much passed around from pillar to post, misdiagnosed, was unsupported by services etc. They were given medication to help with the visual and auditory hallucinations but due to being diagnosed incorrectly they began to use alcohol to self medicate. My sibling at the age of 30 got a psychiatrist who at last correctly gave the diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia. My sibling is still an alcoholic. They have been put into unsuitable accommodation many times and that has not been conducive to addressing their alcoholism. They are not abusive and what you would call a happy drunk.

My ex did the same for anxiety but he never sought help. He has been to hospital several times for detox but he will never listen. He was abusive .

I think whilst the person who is drinking is doing so of their own free will it is usually due to something like a mental illness or a very negative life situation. I have worked in alcohol services in conjunction with homelessness. Many people who are homeless and in precarious housing situations drink to forget the situation they are in. They want to dull anything they feel about the situation. I worked with a chap who had been a teacher. His wife left him through having an affair and so it began.

It certainly is not something people choose for absolutely no reason whatsoever. It is a mental illness in a way. When you have someone who for example has been kicked out of their home it has knock on effects. That person may resort to a drink just to get them through the day. Then the person may fall into difficult situations as a result. There is absolutely no easy answer to any of this.

Again with the simplistic thinking!

No, not all addicts are NDV. Not all have mental illness. Not all have trauma. But if you look at it on a population level, you will find that one of those three things (or more) are present in the majority of addicts.

It is also not the case that not all people who are NDV, have mental illness or have experienced trauma become addicted. But again, a substantial subset do.

The kind of black and white thinking you and other posters on this thread are exhibiting is part of the reason why the UK continues to pursue an ineffective punishment based policy towards addiction. If you look at outcomes of addiction policy, it's pretty clear that those countries which treat it as a medical issue have better outcomes than the UK and the US, which take a punitive approach.

It's also the reason why treatment services for addiction in and comorbid with mental health issues has virtually disappeared from the NHS.

They may well be “managing” well without but I think there can be serious repercussions later in adulthood as these issues become more pronounced.

Yes

What about people who get addicted to opioid painkillers which were prescribed by the doctor for an injury or after an operation?

I can think of two people I know who this happened to. Beforehand they seemed to have stable lives with well paid careers. They may have had some problems in their lives that I don’t know about but I can’t think of anyone who goes through life without any stress or problems.
Why did they get addicted when plenty of other people take opiate painkillers like codeine only for as long as they need to?

@Southwestten it is likely that addiction is a complex issue and that there are many factors at play, including genetic ones. We know that for some people who are vulnerable, using cannabis can cause psychosis. In the same way, it is likely that for some people, being exposed to a substance can lead to addiction whereas for others it will always be a take it or leave it situation. There is research on this; look for articles on epigenetics in addiction.

This is why I get so tired of people who are only able to judge and condemn - it isn't that simple. Very few things in life are.

Alcoholism is neither a illness/disease nor a lifestyle choice.

Addiction is a coping mechanism, and a very effective one, in response to trauma.

Whilst there is no gene for addiction, there are 11 pairs of gene which have been associated with individuals with a substance use disorder - but these genes are also associated with individuals with Parkinson’s, schizophrenia, bipolar and anxiety disorders.

Genes are also influenced by the environment, so when addiction is seen to run in families, you need to consider the impact of the trauma associated with having an addicted parent upon the individual.

Some people are able to overcome the trauma they have experienced, and some are not. Mental health is shamefully underfunded and we need to rethink how we deal with individuals with addiction use disorders. Greater and quicker access to trauma informed care/therapy for individuals struggling with addiction would be hugely beneficial.

I’m not sure about enforced treatment, but allowing someone to essentially drink themselves to death doesn’t sit right with me either.

Well done on the three years, that's impressive.

Can you tell me what it is that alcohol gives you, why you need it? DH died of cirrhosis a few weeks ago and I'm desperately trying to understand how drinking can be the most important thing in life.

No one said they were.

In my experience it's a choice that develops into a dependency and an illness.

My mother chose to deal with trauma by drinking- we all know there are plenty of other ways to deal with trauma that don't rely on drinking yourself stupid or other destructive choices. She's at the point now where she's totally dependent and it's ruining her health and life. My birth father did the same and he's now severely disabled due to it.

Drink absolutely changes people. Even if they're only mean when they're drunk it undermines everything- even the sober periods. It destroys trust and relationships. I've never met a "good alcoholic". I doubt I ever will.

i should have worded it better mother isn’t an alcoholic, father didn’t start drinking until children moved out so no trauma

I couldn't disagree with this more.

@Greatly all your posts about addicts seem to indicate that you think addiction is a choice people make. People on this thread have pointed out that for the majority of addicts, this is not the case. Many are neurodivergent. Many are mentally unwell. Many are traumatised. Those are not excuses which absolve the addict from working for their recovery, they are explanations for their actions which indicate the areas where the addict needs to focus his/her efforts. Yes, addicts need to take responsibility for their own recovery, acknowledge that they have a problem and put in the work. That does not mean we cannot and should not ever feel compassion for them even as we feel all the other emotions that life with an addict brings about. Al-Anon teaches that we should detach with love, not with judgement.

@Greatly OK, so I have reread and I owe you a grovelling apology because I got you mixed up with a poster called @GreaterStickle . There's no excuse and I am very sorry to have upset you, especially since you and I have been and in your case still are in the same boat.

@Allytheapple in the realm of hungry ghosts is indeed an excellent book

I sincerely hope that life never shows you how wrong you are about this

it is likely that addiction is a complex issue and that there are many factors at play, including genetic ones.

Pointythings yes it is indeed a complex issue.
I read some of the articles on epigenetics. How terrifying that cocaine can influence the genetic make up of descendants of the cocaine consumers (although I couldn’t understand much of the scientific language).

Re opiate addiction, there was a thread recently about codeine and several people said they hated the effects - some because of a bad physical reaction to it and some because they didn’t like the mental affect - and several said they liked it so people react to it in numerous different ways.

@Southwestten I once got given strong opiate painkillers for a muscle injury and only took one dose because I hated the high, loss of control feeling. I preferred the pain. I also hate to be drunk and drink very little. I do think some of it is in the wiring.