Alcholism opinions

[Dedoodedodi]

Hi, I'm not new to Mumsnet but have decided to name change, I'm after people's honest opinions on alcholism and wether it is a illness/disease or a self inflicted lifestyle choice, and if that changes somewhere in-between the two, so what may start as bad choices and blows into alcholism and the related Ill health and symptoms that comes from that where is the line drawn between choices and illness? I don't want to say who I am in this equation and why I'm interested in other opinions, as I want to be unbiased as possible. Alcholism does obviously become a life threatening illness in the later stages, if you for example had someone really close to you that you know normally personality and the way they are is lovely and fine but over time slipped more under would you say they had a disease they couldn't fully control? Same as if you got cancer for example, you can't control if you get that or not to best of ability, there's no rules around do or do not do this or that to avoid it, is it the same league or is it different, and if it is, then why please? Can it change someone's personality over time that you knew to be a normal kind quiet person, is it a illness they cant help,the person, combination? I will like opinions to wrap my head around this issue. Thankyou

It's a disease. Whilst it starts as a choice, often as a way of self-medicating, the choice element reduces over time. I have watched a close friend decline from life and soul of the party, successful, happy man to unemployed, sofa-surfing alcoholic over the last 20 odd years. Alcohol has lost him his friends, the majority of his family, his home, his lifestyle, a considerable chunk of his personality and it will quite likely also cost him his life. He hates who he has become and the hurt he has caused. It ceased to be a choice he could control a long time ago.

Wow @Minimalme that’s a really special level of callous intolerance.

I think she has very good reason for it. I know a few people who grew up with alcoholics and have developed a zero tolerance as a result.

@Blossomtoes not necessarily. It's just self preservation.

@Minimalme 100% agree with you

I feel a bit more nuanced about this than @Minimalme does, but it is incredibly important that if someone close to you is addicted to alcohol that you don't get sucked into managing their life for them. I made that mistake and breaking free of that pattern was incredibly hard.

In general I feel sympathy for people in addiction because it is nearly always coming from a place of trauma or mental ill health. That doesn't mean it is up to me to 'rescue' them though - they have to do that themselves. It's a fine line to walk.

It is absolutely not callous to put yourself first. It's the most important thing you can do - so that if the person in your life does find genuine recovery, you can be there for them to offer genuine support rather than enablement.

Is it? I managed to live with a (now recovering) alcoholic without sinking to that level of callousness.

@Blossomtoes I wouldn't have dreamed of not speaking to my husband even as things were disintegrating. I called the police on him because he threatened to kill me and had him removed from our house, but I also helped him move into his new place and did what he let me to support him through our divorce. What I did do was detach emotionally. That wasn't callous, it was something I needed to do to survive.

WIth my mum it was harder because of the alcohol-induced dementia - it became almost impossible to actually have a conversation with her because she couldn't sustain one long enough. I never cut her off either though.

These days I'm there for other people going through the same thing. I can't help their addicted loved ones, but I can help them.

I find it strange on Mumsnet how everyone who drinks a lot is apparently going to become an abuser, lose their home, job, family etc. etc.

I know lots of people who are probably technically 'alcoholics' but only really 1 who has gone into the above category.

I think the majority of people keep their drinking in check to some degree and stop themselves completely falling off the edge. You have to drink a hell of a lot to become physically addicted, there are plenty of opportunities to not be a complete alcoholic. Trauma, bad choices through seeing parents etc. not taking responsibilities seriously enough? Could be many reasons why people end up this ways. I think once someone has got to that stage where they need to drink all day every day there is little hope. They only really care about the booze, so where does the will come from to overcome it?

So a bit of a mix really but I do think you need to make a lot of bad choices to become an alcoholic, so not like getting cancer at all really. But doesn't mean they don't deserve sympathy.

Addiction is an illness, and no one chooses it. They might choose the substance that sends them on the path of addiction, but no one chooses to be addicted.

And she has a bloody good reason for it too.

It is a disease. It doesn't have to be self medication either. I drank too much through my 20s because I didn't learn how to balance my alcohol consumption, slowly over time I drank more and more because it was still fun, because I was "bored", because I enjoyed it, I needed it. That's the disease. It rewires your brain pathways, sets your dopamine and reward triggers to be entirely linked to alcohol. I did not choose that, I did not understand that I was becoming an alcoholic, they don't teach this at school.

But sure I don't deny that it's my disease. I had to fight tooth and nail to get out of the grips of the disease. I don't say I'm blameless, not at all, I blame myself for everything. But I can live with myself and I can look to the future because I know about the disease, I know that it exists and that it sucks people in. Do not deny it's existence, do not avoid telling alcoholics about it - if you do you're taking away any hope, any glint of light. Do not do that.

Some AA meetings are Open which means non alcoholics can attend (usually accompanying an alcoholic or someone who 'may' have a problem)

This is a really good way to get an insight into the way our brains work. And I do believe that we are inherently wired differently to others. We are predisposed to addiction and that is the 'disease' element. I react differently to alcohol than non alcoholics so I had very little choice over the path I ended up taking.

I completely accept that the quest for more and more alcohol creates selfish, despicable monsters who destroy lives.

However, if you are lucky enough NOT to react to alcohol the same way I do, then it's hard if not impossible for you to understand how little control we have over the progression of the addiction.

Do you have anything useful to add for op?

I won't tolerate alcoholism in myself or others. I am entitled to draw that as a boundary.

My opinions were formed as a child and I am very, very clear that I have no more energy or time to give over to alcohol addiction. 21 years was enough for me.

Do you support any alcoholics or is your opinion formed in the abstract @Blossomtoes ?

Had you bothered to read the thread properly you’d have seen I live with a recovering alcoholic. One who’s been sober for over two years now. The irony of asking if I have anything useful to add after your post is staggering.

Read Gabor Maté. He is excellent on this subject.

All addictions are maladaptive ways to self medicate - usually because of emotional pain caused by trauma. But also sometimes because of undiagnosed neurodivergence which is experienced as trauma because of social isolation, not being able to hold a job and feeling of failure, etc.

My parent died of alcoholism. I saw it up close for years. I can tell you now - it was never a choice for them.

I wonder if how an individual uses alcohol determines it's addictveness?
I have always enjoyed a drink but I have never, ever used it an an emotional crutch. If I ever experience a stressful time or tragedy - the very last thing I would ever do is drink. In fact during stressful times I often avoid it for months.
Drinking to avoid reality seems to be a massive trigger for addiction for many people.

Addiction is a mental Illness yes, but you're not born addicted to alcohol. (Well some sad cases yes but that's not what I'm on about.)
You have to drink a significant amount over a significant amount of time (which IS a choice) to then become addicted. Which then leads to mental illness / addiction.

It has been proven that many people have a genetic predisposition to alcoholism. As do many to depression, clinical anxiety, and so on. I would say some become addicted to whatever substance after the first drink/drug brings relief - often they are self-soothing other mental illness and/or trauma.

I think the WHO defines alcoholism as a disease.

It's not a competition for which disease is worse, also.

Well I’m an alcoholic. I’m pretty sure of that.
Before I was sexually assaulted by my daughter’s doctor I wasn’t.
it has become a real problem for me now.
Not that I hadn’t had problems before he assaulted me (stillborn DD, SA as a child, rape, my DD is seriously disabled) but I was happy. Didn’t drink during pregnancy in case that sounds like what I’m saying.
And before him only on Friday nights and maybe Tuesday one or two.
When at uni etc a bit more (but I didn’t drink til I was 22).
Alcohol is a choice but probably a predisposition choice.
I think there’s something in these ideas:
Smoking is more likely to get you addicted to alcohol than if you don’t smoke.
lack of sleep and lack of support will assist.
Having had a messed up life will assist.
And by assist I mean lead to alcoholism.

Please don't compare someone with an alcohol problem to somebody battling cancer. It's offensive.

Also, so many different cancers (obviously not all) are alcohol-related.

There is a gene. I have it. My mother does too and is an addict.

it’s not an alcohol specific gene, but it is an addiction gene in general, ie a genetic predisposition to seek immediate gratification etc.

some see it as a get out of jail free card, or “it’s not my fault I am this way”. I notice it myself in over eating and have worked hard to balance this given the appalling lives me and my brother led as a result of her addiction. The urge can be overridden but it’s not easy obviously.

There are several other behavioural genes too. A high Neanderthal % will give you a good sense of direction too.

The “criminal” gene is another one - it is labelled criminal by the media because it implies an impulsive streak which presents as a likelihood to get arrested. I think on the DNA sites they call it an impulsivity gene but that is also linked to addition too.

A gene?
Come on..
I was a perfectly functioning person before my daughter died.
That Ade me a bit more inclined to drink
Sexual assault by my second daughter (and more specifically reporting him and being disbelieved) slowly let it build up.
I think some situations get too much.
It’s probably horrible for good, decent people on the outside.
Often alcoholics are with abusive people

This is true. Difficult life circumstances lead to addiction also but yes there is a gene. Genes can also be dormant and turned on by circumstances.

It's a mental illness, not a lifestyle choice. Having lost my dp to alcoholism I know he would have done anything rather than go through what he went through. He would sit & sob when he was trying to not drink but the need for drink would get the better of him, he hated it & hated himself for what he had become. He had so many things that had traumatised him during his life, his parents divorced when he was 4, his mum's series of partners which included a man who used to beat him, his relationship with his dad was very difficult. He was a professional sportsman & his love hate relationship with his sport & the fear of failing. He had 2 children with a woman who only used him to get pregnant & then when she had got what she wanted discarded him without a care, he had to go through the courts to be able to have a relationship with his children & she put every obstacle she could in to him being able to see them.