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Original poster

Alcholism opinions

186 replies

Dedoodedodi · 30/01/2023 15:17

Hi, I'm not new to Mumsnet but have decided to name change, I'm after people's honest opinions on alcholism and wether it is a illness/disease or a self inflicted lifestyle choice, and if that changes somewhere in-between the two, so what may start as bad choices and blows into alcholism and the related Ill health and symptoms that comes from that where is the line drawn between choices and illness? I don't want to say who I am in this equation and why I'm interested in other opinions, as I want to be unbiased as possible. Alcholism does obviously become a life threatening illness in the later stages, if you for example had someone really close to you that you know normally personality and the way they are is lovely and fine but over time slipped more under would you say they had a disease they couldn't fully control? Same as if you got cancer for example, you can't control if you get that or not to best of ability, there's no rules around do or do not do this or that to avoid it, is it the same league or is it different, and if it is, then why please? Can it change someone's personality over time that you knew to be a normal kind quiet person, is it a illness they cant help,the person, combination? I will like opinions to wrap my head around this issue. Thankyou

OP posts:
SisterAgatha · 31/01/2023 00:06

It is a lifestyle choice.
And usually most likely chosen by those with a genetic predisposition.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4056340/

Facecream · 31/01/2023 00:32

See I can’t even make a sane message! Second daughter’s doctor that was meant to be

milkyaqua · 31/01/2023 00:59

There is a gene. I have it.

There is not a specific single gene. But family, and twin studies, etc, have shown there is a genetic component.

SisterAgatha · 31/01/2023 09:57

milkyaqua · 31/01/2023 00:59

There is a gene. I have it.

There is not a specific single gene. But family, and twin studies, etc, have shown there is a genetic component.

I know. I said that in subsequent posts and in the link I posted 👍🏻

troppibambini6 · 31/01/2023 11:13

@Blossomtoes and I am genuinely happy for you and also pleased that you also got to witness recovery but not everyone does and some people just need to cut themselves off in order to protect themselves.
I witnessed terrible things that no child should have to as I'm sure a lot of this thread have.
I was put in unsafe situations by the man that should have protected me.
I watched him go from a successful man to a homeless tramp.
I watched him lose the sight in one of his eyes through alcohol abuse and tell me it was because of a mosquito flying in his eye.
I watch him be admitted to hospital yellow and swollen on so many occasion.
I saw him in hospital after having a projectile bleed from every orifice.

So Yes for my own sanity I did need to distance myself. I was 24 when he died and I couldn't cope with seeing anymore.

unsureatthispoint · 31/01/2023 11:23

pointythings · 30/01/2023 16:03

It's an illness or a predisposition, but once the person in question knows they have it, they are just as obliged as anyone else to seek help and work hard towards finding recovery. My late husband was an alcoholic. When I married him, he was a great guy - smart, funny, hard working, caring and yes, a really great dad. Then life events hit him and even though he knew there was alcoholism in his family (his uncle and his brother) he turned to alcohol. And when he realised he was dependent, he simply told me that he was OK with that and that he was not going to do anything about it. He didn't, and ultimately the drink killed him, but not before he did an enormous amount of damage to his DC and to me.

So there's an element of illness to it, but there is also an element of choice.

Addiction does change people - in active addiction, your brain will crave the substance and every choice you make will be driven by that. It means you will lie, deceive, manipulate - anything to make sure you get what you're craving when you're craving it. People in active addiction are awful to be around.

Recovery is possible, but only the alcoholic themselves can make it happen. My sister's partner is also an alcoholic, but he is now 12 years sober. It's incredibly hard work, it means looking inside yourself to work out why you are turning to alcohol, but it can be done.

I agree with this

unsureatthispoint · 31/01/2023 11:24

I'm also quite upset at so many lifestyle 'influencers' peddling alcohol these days

pointythings · 31/01/2023 11:25

@troppibambini6 I think the key point here is whether the person in question has admitted there is a problem and is actively trying to address it. Recovery from addiction is a long, hard process and it comes with relapses, which can be incredibly hard for family and loved ones. The sense of fear that comes with recovery is terrifying - when my late husband went into rehab, I was happy because he wasn't drinking and he was so much like the man I married. But the fear was always there because I knew how fragile his recovery was (and it turned out it wasn't real recovery at all, he was just doing rehab because I made him).

If you are living with an addict who is in full denial and is inflicting all the awfulness of the behaviour that comes with addiction on you, you have every right to protect yourself. It's wonderful when someone finds recovery, but it isn't the norm.

troppibambini6 · 31/01/2023 12:09

@pointythings 100% spot on. If someone is asking for help and admitting a problem then yes I would be there for them....
but someone in total denial that a different thing completely.

You are a very wise woman.

GreaterStickle · 31/01/2023 12:13

It’s not an illness nor a disease. Calling it either of those is showing a lack of personal responsibility and an easy excuse. It’s entirely self inflicted.

If they got themselves into that situation they need to get themselves out of it.

Sympathy is not deserved.

pointythings · 31/01/2023 12:13

@troppibambini6 thank you. I have learned a lot from my own experiences and if that knowledge helps someone else that feels like paying it forard for the people who helped me when it was all happening.

VapeVamp12 · 31/01/2023 12:19

Please don't compare someone with an alcohol problem to somebody battling cancer.
It's offensive.

Why?? I know more people who have died from alcohol related illness than I do that have died of cancer. It's not a competition. Addiction is fucking horrible. As is Cancer.

unsureatthispoint · 31/01/2023 12:20

It’s not an illness nor a disease

Addictions are an illness IMO. Ones that could have been prevented through better decision making, sure. But an illness regardless.

Much better education and awareness programmes need to be put in place in order to prevent this.

VapeVamp12 · 31/01/2023 12:21

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Thelnebriati · 31/01/2023 12:21

This isn't going to be a popular opinion but AFAIK, the disease model originated in the USA where the healthcare system is different from Europe.
If you've ever watched an episode of Hoarders you'll see that hoarding is classed as a disease, not a mental illness. Because of the classification the team who help the hoarder can receive funding.
Its the same with alcoholism. If it were classed as a mental illness, the US health and social care system wouldn't be able to offer the same level of help, especially rehab.

I don't think this classification helps addicts, or helps people become aware they are at risk of addiction. People think of disease as something that happens to you.
I think addiction should be in a special class of its own. The treatments for addiction tend to be specific and not suitable for either diseases or other kinds of mental illness, and that supports the idea that addiction is a specific category.

OopsAnotherOne · 31/01/2023 12:22

As a recovering alcoholic (sober for over 3 years), it's a mental illness. Lots of people have predispositions for addictive behaviours without realising. I wasn't born an alcoholic, but all through my teenage years I showed signs of a predisposition to addiction and then once I started drinking in my late teens, very quickly became an alcoholic. The daily drinking and the harmfully high levels of alcohol I was drinking each day was no longer "under my control".

Of course, I was the one buying and consuming the alcohol, but I genuinely felt I had no other choice, I simply had to, it wasn't an option for me. For someone who hasn't suffered with addiction this must be hard to wrap their head around, but it was like an overwhelming necessity that mattered more than anything else to me. Every part of my day, my routine focused on drinking and I simply couldn't stop - I was desperate to stop drinking but simply, simply couldn't.

Like any other illness, I had to seek help. Once I sought help and had the correct resources and support, I was able to get sober, but I am certain I could not have done this without the help of AA. I had simply lost all control to my addiction and it was making me become someone unrecognisable, even to myself. The frightening change in who I was and what I was capable of over such a quick time was not my choice and it was terrifying for me to realise that I couldn't stop drinking even though I was desperate to - that demonstrated it was a vicious mental illness I was dealing with which was only getting worse.

The choices I made could only have helped so far in my opinion - I have a predisposition for addictive behaviour (recent ADHD diagnosis), so cutting out anything and everything that it's possible to get addicted to may have been an option, but that's incredibly impractical and I did not know this at the time, only afterwards. If I knew what alcohol was capable of doing to my mind I'd never have touched a drop, but I had no idea, I never had any intention of becoming an alcoholic and I don't think any addict intends to become the way they are.

SleeplessInEngland · 31/01/2023 12:26

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Indeed. Mumsnet is blessed to have so many experts writing in who apparently know better.

GreaterStickle · 31/01/2023 12:27

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Excellent excuse 👍

RealBecca · 31/01/2023 12:28

I dont think it matters. The behaviours from it are more of a concern to me about whether I can keep someone in my life and support them. I have kids who deserve more than a life growing up in pubs or tolerating abuse or dangerous situations.

unsureatthispoint · 31/01/2023 12:37

I think addiction should be in a special class of its own.

Yes.

Gingerkittykat · 31/01/2023 12:55

Minimalme · 30/01/2023 21:54

Do you have anything useful to add for op?

I won't tolerate alcoholism in myself or others. I am entitled to draw that as a boundary.

My opinions were formed as a child and I am very, very clear that I have no more energy or time to give over to alcohol addiction. 21 years was enough for me.

Do you support any alcoholics or is your opinion formed in the abstract @Blossomtoes ?

Show quote history

I'm with you, I also won't have any kind of relationship or friendship with an alcoholic and am almost tee total myself.

I don't think people understand exactly how deep the wounds of having an alcoholic run. I then had a relationship and a child with an alcoholic but luckily got out. I heard he nearly died at New Year after falling over drunk in the snow on the way back from a party and passing out.

My life is now an alcoholic free zone.

2bazookas · 31/01/2023 12:57

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Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Greatly · 31/01/2023 12:58

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DrManhattan · 31/01/2023 15:21

@2bazookas why do you think this is for an article? There aren't any new arguments here, you can find all this using Google.

BethDuttonsTwin · 31/01/2023 15:39

Every person I know who has a substance addiction - drugs/alcohol quite clearly has some other undiagnosed kind of issue eg my ex H has ADHD, he sought diagnosis as an adult and was told he met all the criteria but must stop drinking for them to be able to officially diagnose and medicate him. He disengaged at that point as for him stopping drinking is not an option. A friend who I was at school with is addicted to heroin, she is now cleanish, been through rehab multiple times but regularly falls off the wagon. Looking back it is painfully obvious that she had significant SEN/SN, I suspect again ADHD, but extremely strict parents - military types - who simply couldn’t consider or accommodate such an idea. They were authoritarian in the extreme and no allowances were made at home or school. We didn’t realise at the time, just loved all the disruption and distraction she created.

This is why I believe it is essential to get “The Label”, if children show signs of spectrum conditions. They may well be “managing” well without but I think there can be serious repercussions later in adulthood as these issues become more pronounced.