To be disappointed DP hasn't proposed

[ConfusedFlamingo]

I feel a bit pathetic even writing this... but I can't help but be disappointed and sad.

DP and I have been together for 10 years. For the past 4 years or so I have mentioned that I would like to get married – I have also made clear that I'm not interested in a big, fancy wedding and that I'd be just as happy with civil service or us eloping somewhere just the two of us (nothing elaborate, just a holiday with a civil service somewhere). I have discussed with him that it would make me feel more secure as 'de facto' is not a thing here in the UK (I'm from Aus where couples have the same rights as a married couple after cohabitating for a certain number of years). This isn't something I've brought up constantly – maybe once or twice a year. I'm worried that if we were to have kids, or one of us were ill, or were to pass away that everything would be that much more difficult as we wouldn't be seen as being 'family'. For context, we don't have kids – we were TTC but are going through fairly significant fertility issues.

He has not been that keen whenever I have brought marriage up (his parents did not have a happy marriage, and he has had several friends divorce shortly after getting married), but last year asked if it was something I was still interested in. I said it definitely was. He asked again a few months later. Towards the end of the year, he told me about a jeweller he had seen on IG whose work he thought I would like (which is a pretty unusual thing for him to do) – the jeweller in question specialises in engagement jewellery and her work is definitely my style, and I told DP I loved it. And, I kind of felt that maybe he was about to propose... it was my birthday recently and I really thought that I might be getting a ring.. but obviously didn't. I didn't say anything, but can't help but feel disappointed.

I don't know what to do. I've told him that it's important to me. He knows why. I'm not asking for anything ridiculous. I honestly don't even care if there is a ring, I just want the security of being recognised as being each other's family. I don't want to become that girl that forces a partner to get married, but after 10 years and approaching 40 I also don't want to be in this situation. I feel a bit stupid and pathetic even writing this but I just feel like I need some advice.

In what ways is it in his interests at the moment to get married? Financially, legally etc?

@CosyFanTucci

It almost certainly isn’t in his interest at least for now because he would have to give away up to half of his assets in a split. Which is why he doesn’t want to do it.

@WineDup and having given your partner these protections under law you are free to remove them again without even letting them know. Unlike w marriage.

When at the end of last year did he ask and then show you a jeweller? September? December?

I ask because he may have had something made and Xmas/new year jewellers are very busy. Both of our wedding and engagement rings were made to measure in the metal we chose and it took a while.

If this is the case and you had the conversation mid-late December then you will kinda ruin it by having the conversation with him now.

However. You don’t just wait endlessly. I’d give it until March/April and if he hasn’t proposed then you need to have a blunt conversation with him about what you want.

If he wants to remove me as next of kin that’s on him, it would not impact me in any way. He can’t remove me from any financial benefits though since all our assets are joint. We have already agreed that we would be removed as pension beneficiaries in event of a split and instead it would be split between our children.

Being able to walk away easily is part of the appeal of the arrangement, I never want to be stuck with someone I don’t want to be with.

@WineDup can I ask how you have approached the inheritance tax issue? Alongside recognition if there were a health emergency or one of us were to pass away, this is a concern for me as we grow older (and the way we have property set up would be an issue for DP as well as me). It’s one aspect that I can’t seem to find a legal alternative to

www.hcrlaw.com/blog/inheritance-tax-considerations-for-unmarried-couples/amp/

this site seems to imply that it is possible to have it drafted into your will. It’s not a consideration for us at this point because we only have one relatively modest house, as we are both on the deeds for it, therefore neither of us would “inherit” anything from the other which would take us into inheritance tax territory. We live in a LCOL area so we are unlikely to own a home over that value.

The sad fact is that the damage to your relationship has already been done by his refusal/reluctance to get married. There with always be a niggling doubt as to whether he is really committed to you.

Whatever you decide to do, just be cautious about sinking all of your life and hopes into this man.

You can't. There is no way around it.

@WineDup is just saying it won't affect them as they won't have enough assets to incur tax.

Have you actually asked your boyfriend about a civil partnership though? What makes you think he will do that if he's messed around for 10 years without being willing to commit?

Of course you can't write a legal document exempting yourself from paying tax 😁

Imagine if that were the case.

And wow! What an incredible misrepresentation of that page you linked

There is, therefore, a very real possibility that unmarried couples could face double taxation with assets being charged to IHT on the first death and then again on the second death.

To reduce any potential IHT liability, unmarried couples could consider getting married to ensure that they can benefit from the spouse exemption and transferable NRB and RNRB. However, for those couples who do not wish to marry as a tax planning step, they should certainly seek advice so that they are clear on the IHT implications of their situation. They should also seriously consider making wills which, if carefully drafted, could potentially reduce the likely IHT.

that's really not saying you can write a will saying "I don't want to pay inheritance tax cheers" 😄

In effect, aren’t people telling OP to do that by getting married purely for tax reasons?

Marriage is a legal contract though, take the emotion out of it, it’s a contract that you enter into with there being some advantages for tax purposes and some disadvantages, possibly, if you want to dissolve the contract. 🤷‍♀️ there’s nothing wrong with getting married for the legal contractual side, if you live together and have children you’ve already tied yourselves to each other in every other way.

Of course he is entitled not to want to get married just as you are to want marriage but for goodness sake he should have the decency to tell you that.

Ten years he has said nothing, no proposal, no telling you he doesn't want to get married.

If he believes in marriage and wanted to marry you what on earth has stopped him proposing. He is pathetic. It does not take 10 years to know whether you want to be with someone and marry them.

If you get him to agree to marriage for goodness sake don't just accept an engagement with no date as to the wedding. He is likely to want to be engaged for 20 years!

As I said, it’s not an issue for us as our home is under the threshold.

You can gift your property to someone else and pay them market value rent though.

You are also free to sell your property to anyone for any price you want. For example, you could sell a house to your child for £1, and only be liable to pay capital gains at 18% of the change in value of the property from the date of purchase to the date of sale (so if you bought a house for £100,000, paid off the mortgage and then sold it for £1 against a value of £150,000, you would pay 18% of £50k instead of 40% of the whole value)

Yes. It is an absolutely massive advantage of marriage.

But it only impact those who are already “wealthy” (the nul value is significantly above the average house price in the uk)

I disagree those rights should be sleepwalked into. As you can see, your boyfriend is wilfully withholding those and choosing to exercise his right not to give you the legal protection and benefits of marriage.

Similar to you, a family member died and my DP and I saw first hand how we would have been shafted bt not being married so we booked in a month later. We didnt tell anyone or have a ceremony, it is literally just a legal document stuffed in the filing cabinet.

If you arent on the same page I think it is a deal breaker because if you are together forever then at some point one of you will have to deal with the shitshow that you know from experience can happen.

And I'd be offended that on balance he thinks it's a better bet to be unmarried as it makes it easier to untie assets while alive than to marry you knowing that if death parts you then you are better off. In other words, his money is on a split before a death.

Marriage is a serious legal contract, not a romantic gesture so he needs to adult up. if he thinks you will be together until death.

Well, it seems to be a concern for the op. So I think it's wrong to mislead her by falsely implying you can get around it.

You can - you can sell your home to whoever would normally inherit it for under market value/£1. Maybe not as easy if they don’t yet (and possibly won’t ever) have children though. You can also give cash gifts to people while still alive and not pay capital gains tax or inheritance tax.

And if you become ill or permanently disabled, he can leave you for someone else and you have no legal or financial protection. Or vice versa.

It's all great as long as you're on the same page and everything is hunky dory. Marriage is a legal protection. It doesn't mean you have to stay with someone, but it does prevent both people from being totally fucked over in the event of a split

I suggest op reads the page you linked, or another actual legal advice page, rather than this dangerously misleading advice.

It's nowhere near as simple as this and you are misleading her.

It's also fundamentally irrelevant if her partner is unwilling to commit to her.

But you are posting misinformation and she or anyone else in this position would be better off getting proper advice.

Isn’t the inheritance tax threshold £325k? How is this significantly above the average house value in the U.K.? I thought the average house value was close to £300k.

Tell him in no uncertain terms no ring, no baby. If you have kid with him he will never marry you. Why would he? There would be zero incentive. Don't be a mug.

No. They're telling her to avail herself of the one the state will provide for her if she and her partner complete the relevant legal process. There's a vast distinction between the two things.