To be disappointed DP hasn't proposed

[ConfusedFlamingo]

I feel a bit pathetic even writing this... but I can't help but be disappointed and sad.

DP and I have been together for 10 years. For the past 4 years or so I have mentioned that I would like to get married – I have also made clear that I'm not interested in a big, fancy wedding and that I'd be just as happy with civil service or us eloping somewhere just the two of us (nothing elaborate, just a holiday with a civil service somewhere). I have discussed with him that it would make me feel more secure as 'de facto' is not a thing here in the UK (I'm from Aus where couples have the same rights as a married couple after cohabitating for a certain number of years). This isn't something I've brought up constantly – maybe once or twice a year. I'm worried that if we were to have kids, or one of us were ill, or were to pass away that everything would be that much more difficult as we wouldn't be seen as being 'family'. For context, we don't have kids – we were TTC but are going through fairly significant fertility issues.

He has not been that keen whenever I have brought marriage up (his parents did not have a happy marriage, and he has had several friends divorce shortly after getting married), but last year asked if it was something I was still interested in. I said it definitely was. He asked again a few months later. Towards the end of the year, he told me about a jeweller he had seen on IG whose work he thought I would like (which is a pretty unusual thing for him to do) – the jeweller in question specialises in engagement jewellery and her work is definitely my style, and I told DP I loved it. And, I kind of felt that maybe he was about to propose... it was my birthday recently and I really thought that I might be getting a ring.. but obviously didn't. I didn't say anything, but can't help but feel disappointed.

I don't know what to do. I've told him that it's important to me. He knows why. I'm not asking for anything ridiculous. I honestly don't even care if there is a ring, I just want the security of being recognised as being each other's family. I don't want to become that girl that forces a partner to get married, but after 10 years and approaching 40 I also don't want to be in this situation. I feel a bit stupid and pathetic even writing this but I just feel like I need some advice.

That relationship ended over 15 years ago and I'm married to someone else now and we have children together. I'm not interested in picking over the details of that past r'ship.

I was using it to illustrate the point that people should only get legal rights/obligations to their partner if they actively choose to either get married, or to sign specific legal documents, not just because they have lived together for x number of years.

No. Initially, I wanted to get married. Df really didn’t want a wedding but was okay with marriage, but didn’t want to propose as he knew I wanted the whole big wedding thing. We got engaged and started planning a wedding. Then I decided I didn’t really want the whole wedding thing, but I wanted the protection that was brought with being married. We both did. So we considered a small, casual wedding. Then we realised that we could get the same protections without marriage, so we did that instead. And now I’m glad, because the more weddings I go to, the more I realise how sexist and outdated it actually is, and I’m so glad we didn’t go through with our plans ( but I’d quite like a sparkly dress and I love my sparkly ring)

And I'm stating why 'de facto' marriage that just happens after a certain number of years of living together, without an active voluntary commitment on the part of both partners, is a bad idea.

Whether you get married or form other legal commitments to each other is up to you. But people shouldn't be forced to have legal obligations to someone if they haven't actively chosen to do so.

Your boyfriend knows you want to get married. You have made it clear. You can either sit around and wait for him to propose for another ten years, or you can take control of your own life and future.

Marriage isn't in and of itself sexist and outdated. It can be an equal partnership.

I wouldn't be seen dead in a wedding dress or sparkly ring!

Just wanted to say I don't think you're pathetic.
Nothing wrong with marriage being important to you and I can see after jeweller conversations why you're disappointed.
I would wait until valentines day just in case he is planning something ,although try not to pin your hope on it too much.
If nothings happens then I think as pp you just need a curious non judgemental conversation about marriage. How important it is to you and why. Ask his views on it and if he sees himself married.
If so agree on a timeframe/ set a date.
You may need to decide if you are willing to stay with him if he won't commit to getting married.
If marriage isn't an option and you decide stay together then make sure you do not in anyway make yourself financially vulnerable.

It was similar with me, OP. Together eight years. I wanted to get married because I wanted to start a family. He eventually agreed, and we chose a ring, but were then engaged for five long years. He was nervous about what his parents would say. (!)
Eventually, I gave him an ultimatum: wedding, or I'm off. He agreed to having a small wedding if I organised everything. We had a register office wedding the following April, and dinner in a hotel with our friends. It was lovely. This April it will be our 30 years anniversary! So don't listen to those who say he won't do it, but don't hang around, hoping either - pin him down and explain why it's important. Good luck!

That’s the thing though, you don’t have to use those rights if you don’t want to. But you can use them if need be!

You seem very passive, OP.

Rather than do what most posters have suggested and propose yourself, you're sitting round wasting the best years of your life on a bloke who doesn't appear to want to get married.

And you're not prepared to find out for certain by proposing YOURSELF, because your boyfriend is "traditional" and IF he wanted to get married, he would want to do the proposing himself.

So what? IF I had big ears and a trunk, I'd be Dumbo. It's not gonna happen so no point me planning for a career in the circus.

Propose to him or leave. Or sit around wasting more years on a guy who doesn't want to get married. And even if he DID propose, you'd still have to get him to the altar. Which could take another 20 years of stalling.

I really don't agree with this.

Marriage should be a choice. At heart it's a financial contract which protects the interests of the financially weaker spouse and obviously is a really good idea if you want to take time off to raise children or your ability to work is going to be limited for some other reasons. It has lots of other ancillary benefits to do with things like inheritance and tax. But fundamentally its an insurance policy and has to be entered into willingly rather than by default.

It works really well for some people but is disastrous for others.

Marriage for me would be a nightmare: I'm in a stable and happy relationship with someone and we will probably cohabit at some point but hell would freeze over before I would marry him. I would hate for him to end up owning half of all my assets (and a lot of my daughter's inheritance) simply by virtue of the fact that he's shared my bed for several years.

It's a seductive idea that women who have been economically inactive but in a relationship should be entitled to that but the law would have to be applied equally and that would mean a lot of able-bodied men who don't have childcare responsibilities being able to take half of their partner's assets in a split by virtue of the fact that they've cohabited. It would basically be a cocklodger's charter.

OK, so tell me a good reason for marriage.
Because SHE wants it isn't exactly a one either.

She wants it so he should bend, is just as good an argument as he doesn't want it so why is she pushing.

The relationship has lasted this long without a bit of paper.

Your thought that you don't want to be "that girl that forces their partner to get married" is the main problem from what I can see

With that mindset no doubt he isn't proposing you cause he can subconsciously sense your fear.

Have the mindset that it's well within your rights to hope and expect and ask for marriage.

Nothing about being "that girl" I am sure this is some crazy idea propagated no doubt by ill intentioned men themselves

www.unbiased.co.uk/discover/personal-finance/family/getting-married#:~:text=One%20advantage%20is%20that%20spouses,of%20you%20were%20to%20die.

Say that you are confused by your past conversations about marriage. That you'd assumed it would happen by now. Say that you want to be married (not engaged) during 2023 because it is important to you. See what he says.

He doesn’t have to “bend to her will” at all, don’t be ridiculous! He’s absolutely free to tell the truth and say “I don’t want to marry you”. Then she will know exactly where she stands and can make a choice.

@C1N1C

The relationship has lasted this long without a bit of paper.

It has lasted because the DP gets to have his cake and eat it and the OP hasn’t rocked the boat. Not because it’s some great romance.

Grimly sticking something out which doesn’t deliver what you want isn’t what I would want.

@ConfusedFlamingo All I can say is that I married the great love of my life and had children with him. We are now divorced, and marrying him was the best move I ever made. I would have been fucked under UK law if we had not been married, and so would our children. Stop thinking about proposals, rings, who's doing the proposing etc. Marriage is a legal contract. My ex husband and I got married with two witnesses from the register office. The whole thing was over in 15 mins. It was purely a legal transaction. That's all it needs to be.

I’d just say that you’d like to be married and if that’s not something he wants you don’t want to continue. Then act on it. Move out or he moves out.

100% this.

See it for what it is and make an intelligent, informed, adult decision on that basis.

All this shit about rings and dresses etc. is meaningless nonsense.

Btw, I have a long-term partner now, and nfw would I marry him. What's mine is my children's in law, and nobody else's.

Big woop. That's hardly an incentive. It's still his choice and he has just as much right to a no as she does to a yes. If he doesn't fancy tax perks, still his choice. Doesn't mean he loves her any less, and to throw away a 10 year relationship over day and a signature is silly.

You asked:

so tell me a good reason for marriage.

I sent you a link to an entire web page of excellent reasons.

That's hardly an incentive

I mean, OK. Saving hundreds of thousands of pounds and having legal protection would be an incentive for many people, but sure, you do you.

It's still his choice and he has just as much right to a no as she does to a yes

Who said anything otherwise?

IMO, marriage is one of those things, like having children, where you have to be 100% certain you are doing the right thing and it's what you want too because you can't get married just to please somebody else. Also, marriage puts any assets you have at risk. If those are significant assets then you'd be insane to entertain it.

I guess what I’m saying is that if I were in a long term relationship that I was fully committed to and I knew marriage was very important to the other half of that relationship, I’m finding it hard to imagine why I would be so averse to it. It is, as you say, a piece of paper. So why not sign that piece of paper if it means so much to a partner you’re committed to?

As I say, I can’t think of a reason other than a lack of commitment. Emotionally, a lack of wanting to get into the legal obligations or both.

But even if there is some meaningful reason that he is strongly averse to marriage while being solidly in a relationship with the op, this bloke should be honest and say it. He’s toying cruelly with her feelings, hopes and confidence. That’s enough in itself to say this situation needs to be resolved one way or another.

A good example is my mum. Dad left and she found a new guy. It's been 8 years and they've never married and have no intention because they don't want to share finances. Same love, just no financial complications.