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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel grabby and uncomfortable with this.

374 replies

abstractplantpot · 20/01/2023 11:38

Background - i'm married with kids we own our house and a small business. Sister single by choice owns her own house works full time and has a horse.

My father died 5 yrs ago and mum is left with the house they lived in and a small savings pot. She has been diagnosed with dementia and is needing increasing care.

My sister had talked about either renting her house out or selling it to move in with mum as she would eventually like to live in that house herself. This is fine by me. At the moment we share her care. I also do all the household business like keeping bills paid ensuring she has food and everything she needs.

Sister was advised by "the girls in work" to get legal advice before she did this as she could end up loosing out. I agreed and wanted us to get the correct info on how to do this legally and above board.

I couldn't go with her as i had no child care for the time she made the appointment so she went alone.

She has come back from the solicitor and said she doesn't need to move in with mum. She wants to open a bank account in her name and my name and transfer mums savings to it. Then get the house put into our names. with a document saying mum can live there untill she's no longer able.

For me this doesn't solve the problem of mum needing care! She has gone into that appointment trying to protect her inheritance and not looked at how we can help mum.

She's telling me she needs to look after her own interests as she hasn't got anyone else to do it for her. I have a husband she has no one. She is pushing me to do this quickly as she said we have to have it done for three years otherwise if mum goes into a home she will loose the house.

She isn't listening when i mention this doesn't help with caring for mum.

i do not want to do the joint account as it will mean my earnings for this year will push up to the next tax bracket. we own a business and this will be an asset. She's happy to move it into an account
solely in her name which again i'm fine
with but what about caring for mum.

Am i being unreasonable for being uncomfortable with this. I was happy to do it when she was moving into the house (happy to get deeds in her name or joint names not the bank account) to care for mum when she wasn't at work. i'd have gone in during the day. But now she's forgotten all about mum and is concentrating on the money.

How can i make her see i'm unhappy with this with out seeming i'm selfish.
thanks.

OP posts:
Colderthanever · 20/01/2023 11:40

You need to say no to this. She’s trying to Rob her own mother, it’s shocking. It isn’t her money or yours when your mother is alive.

honestly it’s heinous.

Backtoreality1 · 20/01/2023 11:40

Tell her exactly what you have just told us ?

pippinsleftleg · 20/01/2023 11:41

Go and see a solicitor of your own to get their advice.

Whataretheodds · 20/01/2023 11:44

She's happy to move it into an account
solely in her name

I bet she is. Get legal advice.

How does your sister think your mum's care will be paid for? Does she realise that the expectation will be that the house is sold to pay for care if no other means?

Aprilx · 20/01/2023 11:45

I am baffled as to how your sister even thinks she can accomplish this, actually either of those things? You cannot just put somebody else’s assets into your own name because you feel like it. Your mother has dementia so obviously cannot approve this. Even if there is an existing POA, the person with power is supposed to act in your mothers interests not their own and transferring assets to somebody else is never is not in your mothers financial interest (even if you think she might have liked to do that).

As an aside, I am also baffled as to how having a joint account is going to change your income tax band, but that probably isn’t the main issue here.

SerenaTee · 20/01/2023 11:46

I’d stall her and get your own advice. I’d tell her “Your plan doesn’t really solve the issue of making sure mum is cared for appropriately. I’ll get a second opinion with my own solicitor to make sure we’ve covered all possible angles”

drpet49 · 20/01/2023 11:46

Who is your mums power of attorney?

iwannascream · 20/01/2023 11:47

Its 7 years not 3 years, for moving assets to not pay for care home fee's etc. The council can and will check all and every case.

Back2Back2t · 20/01/2023 11:49

She's happy to move it into an account solely in her name which again i'm fine
I wouldn't be fine with this OP. I don't think your sister is going to change her mind now as she's got her eyes on the money.

If she doesn't move in, can you look at other options to care for your mum? Is she gonna be coming around? You both will be sharing responsibilities etc?

ChangedmynameagainforChristmas · 20/01/2023 11:49

I hate threads like this where one sibling looks to gain from their parent's failing health and wears blinkers to the effect it will have on anyone else.
My partner's siblings shared out Mum's savings between them all so 'Mum' would not have a large tax bill but they did not take all the money they 'borrowed' from her previously into account leaving my partner with a pittance and they all thought it was fine. I despise them. All he wants is for Mum to be ok. He bought her a TV and they asked him for the bill to reimburse him as this is what they do.. bill her for 'gardening services' and small things like TV ariels for indoors.. shopping - the lot.
He was disgusted. He bought his mum a telly. Why the fuck would he want her to pay for it.
Go and see a solicitor OP.. One who has their head screwed on and stop this nonsense from happening

gogohmm · 20/01/2023 11:51

Do either of you have power of attorney, if not you cannot do anything without the permission of the court of protection and they will not allow her to do what she wants. For care in her own home only your mums savings apply, for residential care the value of her house is applicable. If you do not have poa I suggest you start the process of being a guardian because it's not quick!

Proteinpudding · 20/01/2023 11:51

What your sister is advocating is stealing your mum's savings and house. There's no chance in hell a solicitor would have advised her to do so.
A lot of people talk about a 7yr gifting rule but it's not quite that clear cut; if it's felt that property has been transferred to avoid paying care home fees then you and your sister would be liable.

Your sister has no right to try and solely claim your mum's house to live in, and I'm baffled that you would even consider it.

If your sister pushes you, ask for her plan in writing. Then if she pushes again, tell her you're happy to send it in as an adult safeguarding referral, and a report to the police if she puts any of it into action...

Flowersintheattic57 · 20/01/2023 11:52

Go see a will writer that does trusts. There’s a family trust where your mother’s house , and savings, is put into the trust with you and your sister as trustees. The value of the trust is not taken into account when calculations for paid for care are done. Your sister won’t be able to grab anything that she shouldn’t as you both have to agree, the money and house can be used as needed for your mother.
There are t&c like you have to not need care for a month after it is done, and it costs £3500 to do it, but well worth safeguarding your mother’s assets.

SomethingOriginal2 · 20/01/2023 11:52

There is no way that's legal and quote board. She's trying to rob her mother with dementia. I think things are going to get nasty and you need to keep any record of her trying to take from your mother.

Your mother's savings and house need to go towards getting her the best care.

Your sister can sell her house and buy your mother's house. Then your mother has money available for her care. Your sister can move in With your mother and care for her until she needs a home. But you need to make sure your sister doesn't have unfettered access to your mother's bank account because I bet you she'll be taking large sums out claiming your mother told her to or that it was your mother herself.

DelilahBucket · 20/01/2023 11:53

Do either or both of you have power of attorney? If not, no one should be touching or viewing her accounts for any reason at all, and even if you did, you can't just transfer money from your mum's account to someone else without good reason, or transfer the house ownership (which will hinder any future need to sell it for care costs).
What your sister is suggesting is fraud and theft. I would be having a very frank conversation with her, not tiptoeing around in case I am seen as selfish.

Nimbostratus100 · 20/01/2023 11:54

do either of you have power of attorney? surely you cant be moving your mums savings around without this, and surely you cant be moving them into your own bank account even with it?

SD1978 · 20/01/2023 11:55

I'd be organising medical and financial power of attorney as the priority- the appt she had sounds like it was how to get the most money out of your mum, not about her ongoing and increasing care needs. I wouldn't be going along with her having sole access to the funds your mum has

bbqchickenandsalad · 20/01/2023 11:55

She wants to take her money and house before she's even dead. God that is sinister. What about your mums will?!

Go see your own solicitor asap.

KettrickenSmiled · 20/01/2023 11:55

How can i make her see i'm unhappy with this with out seeming i'm selfish.

With three words: "deprivation of assets"
www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/deprivation-of-assets/

If your sister carries out her selfish plan, she could end up in very hot water legally & financially. Your Council decide to apply care fees as if DM still owned the assets DS snitched, so she'd lose the money anyway - or worse, have to get a loan if she's spent it or sunk it elsewhere. She could also be investigated for tax fraud (evading inheritance tax), which could get hairy - you don't mess with HMRC ...

Whatever she does - do not go along with it. If she won't listen to you, do NOT allow her to open a joint account - you need to keep your name out of it.
You would also be wise to email her stating your disagreement with her plans to move DM's money, your concern about provision of care, & warning her that she is flouting the law - to prevent any 'comeback' on you.

SalviaOfficinalis · 20/01/2023 11:57

She is pushing me to do this quickly as she said we have to have it done for three years otherwise if mum goes into a home she will loose the house.

So if your mother needs a care home, and has the means to pay for it (by owning a house she will no longer be living in), why does your sister think that I (the tax payer) should pay for DM’s care, instead of it being funded from the sale of her house?

Mrsjayy · 20/01/2023 11:57

Oh please say no to this get your own advice. This happened to my Gran the relative took everything.

Emmamoo89 · 20/01/2023 11:58

YANBU X

StopFeckingFaffing · 20/01/2023 11:58

Even if one or both of you have POA for finances her plan sounds very dodgy/illegal

It will be classed as deprivation of assets if your DM ends up needing 24hr care

Fair enough if your DSis wants to provide as much care herself as possible to minimise need to pay for help and protect her inheritance, that is her choice but the rest of her plan sounds fraudulent

Mrsjayy · 20/01/2023 11:59

She basically wants the house so it doesn't need to be sold for care your poor mum

GasPanic · 20/01/2023 12:00

Flowersintheattic57 · 20/01/2023 11:52

Go see a will writer that does trusts. There’s a family trust where your mother’s house , and savings, is put into the trust with you and your sister as trustees. The value of the trust is not taken into account when calculations for paid for care are done. Your sister won’t be able to grab anything that she shouldn’t as you both have to agree, the money and house can be used as needed for your mother.
There are t&c like you have to not need care for a month after it is done, and it costs £3500 to do it, but well worth safeguarding your mother’s assets.

Something like this ^

Prudent tax planning and preservation is not "stealing" or grabby, although I would admit there is a fine line sometimes behind the reason some people want to undergo/undertake prudent planning and often people feel uncomfortable with it.

For me though, the priority should be your mums care first, and the prudent planning second. You should talk to the solicitor with your sister about the best way to both care for your mum and ensure your inheritance is preserved. You shouldn't just ignore tax planning because you think it might threaten your mums care or makes you look "grabby", get advice from a solicitor.

Finally, it might be worth asking yourself what your mum would have wanted. My guess is for most people it would probably be to have a good standard of care, while passing on as much of their estate as possible, which involves some sort of planning. This is not achieved by burying your head on either of these two important issues.