AIBU to expect my parents not to shout at my 4yr old?

[TooConflictedConfused]

My DC (4years old) came back from the grandparents today and told me and my OH that they didn’t like going to my mum’s house. The reason being that when ‘they do wrong things their gran shouts at them’. Then we asked what wrong things they did they said they couldn’t remember, they only remembered the shouting and that they did wrong things all the time. And they also said that’s why they don’t miss their gran cause they get shouted at all the time by her.

Occasionally I ask my parents to help with childcare but it’s no more than once a week. My DC was meant to go to my parents again tomorrow but now I’m thinking of keeping them at home and taking a day off from work.

Any advice on how to approach this with my parents? AIBU to expect my parents not to shout?

My DC is only 4 and generally a super well-behaved kid and never has any complaints from school or after school nanny re behaviours.

My dad is a mild mannered person but generally leaves the childcare to my mum. For background my mum is a school of tough love parent and shouted at me a lot whilst I was growing up and also used corporal punishment. I hence was super triggered by the revelation and would love some objective advice on how to deal with the situation.

Everything you need to know is in the first paragraph of your post.

Your child doesn't want to go there because they are shouted at.

Do not leave your child there again on their own.

If your mother has a problem with that, it is on her.

Your job is to protect your child.

Why are you surprised?

Your mother has form and its now been confirmed.

Listen to your child and do not leave them alone with your parents.

It is too much for your parents and is damaging your child.

Supervised visits only.

If you actually bothered to RTFT then you’d see OP does have childcare and that it is her parents who ask to see OP’s dc.

I would not send your child to them again and would tell them exactly why.

If your dc is not enjoying going stop sending them. If your mum asks why explain what has been said and that they are not happy going. Me and my sibling used to have to go to my aunt's for childcare and hated it. She wasn't nice to us. I was about 5 when my parents found out and banned is going there. I still remember dreading going and am glad my parents put us first by stopping us going. It caused a family rift but I had a happier childhood when my aunt was no longer in my life. If it's true stop your dcs going unsupervised. We banned our dcs going to the in laws as FIL doesn't like kids and wasnt nice to them.

It's a tough one. My mother shouted at my 4 year old at Christmas for repeatedly and deliberately mooning at her. It's unlikely to be an effective way of making her stop (she has form), but I know my DD's behaviour can be very challenging, and we're all human and can just start to feel a bit upset.

If your kid doesn't like going there isn't that enough given how your mum was with you as a child?

I want my DC to have a relationship with their grandparents that’s why I let them visit there.

At what cost though?

OP my kids are teens now but we had a similar scenario when they were small .. my mum was pretty grim to me as a child so as soon as I saw her shout at my kids I never left her with them alone again .. my dad was mild and they adored him but he couldn’t protect me so I didn’t expect him to be able to protect them . There is no need for the relationship with grandparents to be built without you present !

Your child shouldn’t be alone with your mum otherwise he’s going to experience the same verbal abuse as you.

She’s not going to change after all this time, she believes in “though love” as you said, so I’m not sure it’s even worth having a conversation with her.

you can still take him around but need to make sure you, or the father (if she is mindful of him) need to be there. If they ask why you’re not just dropping him there anymore, say he said he miss you, doesn’t want to be alone or some such. You can start dropping him alone there in a few years, when he”s 7 for ex, when you can have a conversation with him and he can hold his ground and push back against any verbal abuse. But if it were to happen again in a few years. I will stop it immediately again.

now he is just getting traumatised, you know very well from your own experience.

the ball is in your court, are you going to expose him to further verbal violence?

my situation is same as yours, and I understand for ppl who haven’t experienced it, they might think verbal violence is not such a big thing, but you know yourself it isn’t.

(and I wouldn’t push for a conversation with my own mum, for ex, bc I know she’ll get emotional, keep the hurt for years, guilt trip me with all the good things she’s done over the years, tell the whole family, so I will get calls from everyone with how much I’d upset her, etc, my children might get treated differently by family in the future, etc, it’s a whole can of worms I’d rather not open. But that doesn’t mean I won’t do what’s right for my child…)

This.

No one needs to shout at a 4yo unless they are in danger. By all means get her side of the story (and, crucially, your DF's if he was there) but given she has form for this, I wouldn't be sending your child back.

If you want her to see your parents surely you just visit with her or organise stuff to do together?

Lots of us were never regularly left with GPs or regularly left our kids with their GPs.

I wouldn't describe 'ocassionally' as once a wk! If your parents look after your 4 year old all day once a week I think that's a lot to expect of them tbh! How old are your parents? I spend time with my 6 year old nephew (I'm 47 but my kids are 14 18) and I find him exhausting after a while. I'm always relieved to wave goodbye & head home and spend time with my lovely teenagers. 4 year old boys are often hard work imo!

This is true. My DM used to shout at my siblings and me a lot when we were growing up, and smack us regularly. There has never been a single incident of her smacking my DDs (now 13 and 10), and I know she wouldn’t. She herself agrees that she was wrong to use corporal punishment.

She does tell them off, though, and mostly they deserve it! They complain about her, though, obviously.

The point really is that my DM and I have talked about this and she will accept it when she’s overstepped. She also doesn’t do regular childcare, only very occasionally.

I'd have a chat with your parents. As others have said, children can experience being told off as shouting even if voices were not particularly raised. If your mum IS really shouting a lot though, I would ask her either to consider the impact it's having on her relationship with her grandchild or see if you can agree how discipline will be handled. Shouting can really impact children's self-esteem, especially if this is by a primary care-giver. When it's a grandparent it's likely to damage the relationship long-term and I'd guess your mum would be upset to think of this happening. I'm by no means perfect. My grandchild lives with me so it's more a parental relationship and I do occasionally raise my voice. I always feel shit afterwards when I see their crestfallen look, and try to avoid it as much as possible.

OP has clarified that she isn't reliant on GP for childcare, and they want to do it to spend time with their GC.

But even this wasn't the case, I fail to see how any of what you have written is a reason or excuse for shouting at a 4yo child to the extent where they don't want to see you anymore?

There seems to be a bizarre notion on Mumsnet that if someone is providing free childcare (which is a twisted way of saying spending time with GP) then parents lose any right to complain about things that are obviously not in the best interests of the child.

I remember reading an article ages ago about Grandparents and childcare. They found that Grandparents reverted to parenting in the way they raised their own children. And of course, this could be at odds with the approach their own children now were adopting. So the child gets very mixed messages about things. They concluded that agreements ahead about the way things need to be is what is required. Easier said than done though.

Childcare is where you need someone to drop your children off to because you have to be elsewhere.
Spending time with grandchildren for the sake of it is where there is not a 'need', but a 'nice to' and where of course grandparents can come to their grandchildren's home.

Ah yes, the two classic parenting styles.

A cosy chat with biscuits OR shouting to the point where your own grandchild doesn't want to see you anymore.

🥴

All parents shout IMO. If you, hand on heart, have never shouted at your child then I genuinely take my hat off to you because you are a better person than I am. I HATE shouting but I often am shouty mum. The difference is that a) I'm their parent, I'm with them 100% of the time more or less so we get on each other's tits more (that applies to my DC as well as me!) and (b) if I've over reacted and shouted I admit it and apologise.

Generally the grandparent generation, when shouting, didn't think they were doing anything wrong.

My Mum has my DC a lot and I don't think she's every shouted at any of them. I wouldn't send mine back there.

I'm having a real issue with my 2 year old hitting her slightly older cousin atm
I come down on it every time, make her apologise and encourage them to hug. If it happens a few times, play date over
She has never been hit, only TV she has ever seen is CBeebies, hasn't started nursery yet, can count on one hand the amount of time she's been away from me or DH (we work opposite days), we don't even rough house or wrestle etc as she's quite a sensitive soul
I genuinely have no idea why she does it, people say it's just a phase and I hope so. She's only ever once tried it on a different kid and yet we socialise a lot (play dates with friends/playgroup/swim lessons/park)
I do fear people will secretly suspect we hit her, I have no idea why she's so aggressive and ironically she adores her cousin, asks for him all the time

@GregoryFluff toddlers don’t have to have seen someone hit to hit. They have poor impulse control and are testing to see what will happen.

Be truthful and have a chat with your mum, and hopefully get your dad on side.

Explain to her most children nowadays do not get shouted at either at home or in school, parenting styles have changed. So therefore dc is very frightened of her when she shouts very loudly and while you fully support discipline could she try to reign the shouting in a bit as they have started saying they don't want to go. Tell her dc loves her and you really want them to have a close relationship but the shouting cannot continue, give her some ideas of how you discipline at home.

If she doesn't try (give her some leeway as it will take time to remember not to slip into her natural habits), then tell her dc can't visit her without you until they are at least a few years older, then you will revisit the idea.

Supervised visits only, and explain why. Don’t choose appeasing your mother over keeping your child safe.

@GregoryFluff it is just a phase if you keep telling her and showing her it’s not ok. It might take months but she’ll outgrow it. Otherwise she might not, seen examples, or might still do it but not as often, thinking it’s an ok thing to do.

My DD saw 2 boys at nursery hitting other children and she took it home to us, not hitting other kids but me and her dad. It took a few months. Apart from explaining it hurt me, it’s not ok, I’ve also added consequences, no more tv that day, no more ice cream or park etc, one of these. That worked better than explaining it hurt, bc I could see on her eyes she didn’t understand or believed me. When they are very young they can’t really imagine how it is for other people.

I know you're right, it's just so frustrating, I don't know what sparks the reaction and I hate to think of people seeing her as the aggro toddler and I worry about her starting nursery next January, I'd be mortified if she starts shoving/smacking other children
But sorry to derail thread