Who's wrong? Parent or Dog owner?

[crashbangg]

My DH went to his friends house and took DS.
His other friend also visited and bought his dog.
The dog kept doing up to my DS who isn't keen on dogs and sometimes quite scared. He wanted to play with the other DC but stayed on the sofa as he was scared of the dog.
DH told the dog owner once, then the dog owner was still letting his dog run around and get up on the sofa so my DH apparently got a bit short with him telling him he needs to sort his dog out. Dog owner then got in a mood and left.

AIBU to think dog owners should keep their dogs away from people/children's especially those who don't like them???

The dog owner was in the wrong. If someone doesn’t like dogs, you must stop your dog from approaching them. Just because you love your dog doesn’t mean anyone else wants it anywhere near them.

But I think the house owner was also a bit stupid. Inviting a bunch of young kids and a dog who is allowed to approach whoever it likes isn’t a great idea.

At my house, if a child turns up and is scared of my dog I am kind and accommodating... but only up to a point. So, eg, much younger children who were nervous I'd perhaps put the dog in another room but I also wouldn't be having them round every five minutes. I'll regularly call the dog to stay with me and leave the DC and their friends alone if there's a child who is less keen. But I'm certainly not going to put my dog outside every time someone comes over.

But if I take my dog anywhere else, ie where people would not expect and know my dog would be there, then I am absolutely militant about being guided by what other people are comfortable with. Your DH and DC had no reason to know a dog was going to be there and might have made different choices if they'd known. The dog owner should 100% have kept the dog away from your DC.

Dog owner was the issue here. They shouldn’t be allowing their dog to jump on other peoples furniture or go near those who aren’t interested.

But dog owners are entitled and thing everyone should love their mutts.

I agrée, definitely not the child’s fault. However, the fear, in this case was unnecessary as the dog was not a threat. Helping a child realise this can prevent and understandable fear/uncertainty from progressing into an irrational phobia. And this would have been the perfect time to do it surrounded by other children who weren’t afraid.

It really isn’t an unnecessary fear. Nobody would say to a woman who complained of a strange man bothering her ‘oh you could have used it as an opportunity to get over that silly unnecessary fear.’ It is normal and natural to be nervous of strange dogs - sometimes dogs kill children, and this often happens in there or a friend’s home. So being frightened of a dog who repeatedly approaches you despite you not wanting that is completely natural and to be honest quite sensible.

This

In their home or a friend’s home, that should say.

Just annoys me that dog owners drive this silly narrative of dismissing natural fears of the animal they keep - but it is in fact normal to feel nervous of an uncontrolled animal with the ability to kill you. There is no law saying people must like your dog approaching them constantly.

What life skill is that exactly? Learning to put up with those inconsiderate dog owners who lack common sense and compassion so said dog owners don't have to bother controlling their dogs?

Also, the frightened person in this scenario is a young child who probably won't have had much time to develop special bad dog owner related "life skills".

I find it funny when people say that a child simply has to get over their "unnecessary fear"... why? What happens if they don't? They presumably just avoid dogs and expect other people to be responsible dog owners. That seems okay to me. I say this as someone who has spent their entire life around dogs. Besides, the child in this scenario sat in the room with the dog, silently uncomfortable - not an ideal situation at all for the poor boy, but it's not like he was breaking down in hysterics. He seems to have dealt with it well given the circumstances.

What's more, I don't think it's particularly surprising that we see lots of children afraid of dogs, especially as more and more irresponsible people seem to think their dogs can do no wrong and thus let them behave badly. I don't think I'd much like dogs if they were the same size of me and kept jumping in my face. Besides, have PP forgot that dogs can and do kill? It's hardly surprising that people are afraid of animals that can kill them 🤣

I also think that many would be interested in whatever 100% guaranteed tried and true method such posters seem to have for curing phobias...

It wasn’t your DH’s house! Very rude of him to start dictating what should/shouldn’t happen in someone else’s house!!
If your Dh and ds weren’t happy they should have gone home. You don’t pitch up as a visitor then start calling the shots.

The situation could have certainly been dealt with better by both parties. Some kids are afraid of dogs. It happens and dog owner should have recognised the situation and controlled the dog better, but child's father didn't have to cause a scene either.

DozyFox

To be honest I'm still amazed at how many posters seem to overlook that DH left his scared child in a situation because he'd rather see his mates.

It's pretty shit parenting.

I'm a dog owner and if my child was genuinely scared of a dog getting in their space, the last thing I'd be doing is keeping my child in that situation.

So either the dog going up to the child really was getting in the child's face and the child genuinely so scared they couldn't leave the sofa (in which case the owner is unreasonable and DH has been a shitty parent), or the dog wasn't actually being a problem and the DH was being too lazy to support their child in the situation.

The dog owner was inconsiderate and entitled but I do agree that arguably, your DH could have used this as an opportunity to show your child how to be around dogs.

I believe strongly that dog owners should control their dogs etc, but I also think that learning how t behave around dogs is a basic life skill. In the perfect world, my children will never be in danger while crossing roads because there will always be pedestrian crossings and cars will always drive at the right speed and will always be vigilant. But that's not real life. So I teach them to look, and consider speed and all the rest. It should be the same with dogs.

Also, most children who are scared have not had a bad experience. In most cases, it is irrational, albeit understandable. My dog, who is very good with children, has been a popular "therapy" dog for a few of my friends whose children developed fears of dogs out of the blue.

You don't say how old your DS is, DD used to be afraid of dogs, I wasn't sure why, then I realised that even what I considered smallish dogs, looked huge to her. Image a great dane rushing at you as an adult. I think I would be very concerned. If the dog owner knew the dog was making someone feel uncomfortable, he should have stopped the dog approaching that person.

Dog owner was wrong. Put the dog on a lead or otherwise keep it away from the children playing. Not hard.

@DozyFox
I find it funny when people say that a child simply has to get over their "unnecessary fear"... why? What happens if they don't? They presumably just avoid dogs and expect other people to be responsible dog owners. That seems okay to me.

Phobias and unnecessary fear can be extremely limiting! Especially when you have a fear of something that you can’t control. A fear of flying, for example, can be controlled by simply deciding not to fly. A fear of dogs, however, can ultimately render you unable to go outside.
I’ll never understand why people consider it ok to just accept they have an issue rather than try to address it.

@MsMarch I like your analogy about the traffic training but I think it demonstrates the opposite of what you intend. I have taught my DD from a young age to be respectful of all animals, to not approach unless she's been told it's okay, how to touch them, how to read the warning signs of an animal who wants to be left alone etc

What I can't do is mitigate against is how the animal and/or owner behaves, anymore than I can stop a car from going through a red light or speeding. Ultimately the driver/dog owner is in charge of the thing than can do harm and needs to be in control of it.

A fear of dogs is NOT irrational. Dogs can and do harm people, including dogs who have previously been nothing but gentle and calm. A bad experience doesn't have to mean a bite - it could be loud barking, rushing around near a small child (would you want something bigger than you haring around you? I wouldn't). Totally agree parents should try to help children manage their fears but it isn't always easy.

How old is DS and what dog is it?

The only thing it would limit you from would be owning a dog. If you choose not to own or work with dogs, then it is very very easy to avoid all contact with them. Unknown dogs should never ever be approaching you anyway! So it wouldn’t limit your life in any way to avoid contact with dogs.

It really isn’t an unnecessary fear. Nobody would say to a woman who complained of a strange man bothering her ‘oh you could have used it as an opportunity to get over that silly unnecessary fear.’ It is normal and natural to be nervous of strange dogs - sometimes dogs kill children, and this often happens in there or a friend’s home. So being frightened of a dog who repeatedly approaches you despite you not wanting that is completely natural and to be honest quite sensible

Exactly. I was frightened of dogs as a child due to my brother being bitten by a neighbour's dog. It just tore down the street and bit the back of his leg for absolutely no reason we could determine. I myself was bitten by a random Jack Russell who ran out of a garden gate at me as I walked by, when I was around 10 years old, and also by a boyfriend's dog who nipped my ankle as I left a room. I know others who have been bitten, one or two by their own dogs.
Not savaged, obviously, but bitten, and it hurts! It's perfectly normal to be wary of dogs if you've had these experiences and especially a young child.

No amount of 'introducing me to small friendly dogs in a safe environment' cut any ice with me. Get the bloody thing away from me. It's only time and the realisation that most dogs are not in the slightest bit interested in me that has allayed most of my fears. Being pushed into it does not help because your brain goes into panic. Having said all that, I'm still wary of strange dogs and there are an increasing number of uncontrolled dogs around this past few years who will run and jump at you. And owners who tell you he's just being friendly. Whilst I'm not terrified any more, I really just don't want them on me, jumping at me, sniffing my crotch where the only thing you can do is keep turning away while the owner thinks it's hilarious. Just keep your dogs off people. Preferably 6ft away from my personal space and everyone will be happy.

DC is 4. They were the invited guests, and dog owner was called and invited while they were there.

DH was sat on the sofa next to my DC not having a jolly somewhere else with his mates.

Dog is a medium poodle type dog, hyper and tends to jump and lick. DC has had excitable dogs jump at him before and he's just not really keen. He's been around other dogs, and if they're calm and he gets chance to sit with us he will stroke them.

Should have taken the dog out straight away without being asked.

The dog wandering around the house wasn’t the problem. Your child’s fear was the problem, as evidenced by the fact that the other children were playing fine.

The dog owner should not have had to make his visit to the householder difficult just because your DH took his child who doesn’t like dogs. Nor should the harmless dog have to be restrained when he was doing nothing wrong. Your child chose to stay near his parent. Your DH was very rude and entitled and was probably just irritated that he had to parent instead of letting his kid go off and be entertained.

Then I definitely agree the dog owner is in the wrong. A young child around an erratic dog is unfair on everyone.

I would’ve taken my child and left tbh. No animal or human should have the right to physically get up on and frighten a young child. I’m amazed and saddened that is even a point of debate.