To have questions about sex/gender

[Stereotypicallyconfused]

N/C for obvious reasons as likely to get called transphobic but genuinely just confused & want to understand.

I'm a cis woman & therefore clearly have no understanding of what it feels like to be trans & it's hard to have a conversation with people about it. Firstly, I don't think trans people should have to put in the emotional labour to explain (but equally I don't know how you get to understand without having conversations) and secondly, having questions inevitably gets you labelled as a bigot.

I've never questioned what it feels like to be a woman. I just feel like me & I've never thought that how I feel is defined by my sex. I like things that are stereotypically male pursuits & dislike things that are stereotypically female pursuits (and equally vice versa). I'm bisexual so don't fit the "norm" in that respect either.

I feel like wanting to change your gender plays into the gender stereotypes moreso than if you just lived how you wanted to live (wore what you want, liked what you want etc). If there's no intention of ever fully transitioning (I know people that aren't) then I don't understand why you need to say you're the opposite gender. Surely you're just you?!

I know several trans people and obviously respect their pronouns and treat them with the same respect and kindness I would anyone I know. Regardless of the fact I don't understand.

I think if you don't understand it based on what you've said you never will understand it. That's not meant to be a dig at you, it's just I've found that people who have the questions you do are far less likely to ever find a satisfactory explanation because you will always ask 'What if..., but if...' and so forth.

I'm a typical woman (fuck the non term 'cis'). I fancy men, I'm married, have children, work in a sector with male and female workers. I like 'female' type hobbies, but I also do woodwork, decorating and cycling. I rarely wear dresses, just jeans and trousers. I don't have a fascination for dressing in ultra feminine clothes or puffing up my lips with fillers. I don't even understand what it is the feel female, I just feel like a human being.

I'd say I am trans sceptical and don't understand the urge to wear a dress if you are a man or a suit if you are a woman. The whole thing leaves me cold, even though I have a trans friend. I love her as a friend, but just don't get the urge to wear female clothes.

I can understand people wanting to reject gender stereotypes though.

I agree about the stereotypes. It seems like it’s not ok to be into things stereotypical of the opposite gender anymore. It means you must just be that gender. Rather than say it’s ok to be a boy and like something ‘girly’ etc.

The whole ideology is truly regressive. If you’re a boy and want to play with dolls and wear dresses then you must be trans. Rubbish. Why can’t boys play with dolls and wear dresses?

I don’t get how anyone male can say they like a woman either. I’m a woman and I have no idea what other women feel like. There is not one common feeling in our heads that we women have. So if us female people don’t have that connection, how on earth can a man? It seems to me all they are identify is is stereotypes: girly hair, make up, skirts etc

I just feel like me

We can only feel like ourselves. We have no idea what it truly feels like to be anyone else, though we can empathise and imagine. Trans people can't know what it feels like to be the opposite sex either.

Trans isn't a sexist "feeling like a woman/ man" thing, it's a body perception difficulty, heavily based on sexist cultural stereotypes. (This is the only consistent finding in brain scans, as with body dysmorphia and other body perception difficulties.) homophobia is also based on sexist stereotypes and this can plays in to it all.

There's an issue in that the gatekeeping and rigorous analysis people used to go through is being loosened- especially influenced in the west by American approaches which is patient led. It's making a lot of money for medical industries and has essentially become a trend.

There are victims and people struggling to deal with "gender dysphoria." There also evidence of past trauma, especially sexual abuse causing Gd. The debate is around whether changing their body is the "cure" or deeper analysis.

At the same time there's evidence that it's also a porn influenced fetish for some.

On an individual level we can be friendly with and compassionate to trans people we personally know. At the same times there's a huge number of issues driving what is also now a trend with a growing number of people who thoroughly regret surgery and medication.

Worth reading about sinead's story and experiences. twitter.com/imwatson91/status/1609361127028269059?s=46&t=otu3Qq22htSUCA9Mr63vDA

Also worth understanding that Sweden has completely stopped all child transitions based on lack of evidence and also evidence of long term physical damage and mistakes.

Being a woman is not a feeling in a man's head.

You lost me at 'cis'.

I personally believe the entire condition to be socially (via sexist and stereotypes) and internet created. I also personally don't think anyone needs to be surgically/ medically "treated" / transitioned to cope with mental health difficulties associated with these social pressures.

However we are where we are now, a multi billion pound global industry and can only work with people who do believe it helps them to make sure those decisions are fully informed and managed.

There's much bigger discussion around safeguarding and protecting women's rights in this too of course.

Cis is sexist.

It assumes we subscribe to sexist stereotypes because we don't declare we are trans.

It's all manufactured consumerist bullshit.

Well, a trouser suit is pretty standard dress for a female office based professional. I don't find anything particularly 'out there' about that 😚

And yet there IS a long term trans presence here. Not just those who report threads like this for simply existing, but transmen and women who have added to this debate for years.

We also have transwidows who know only too well how destructive this whole issue can be.

If OP (any of us) could find a space like this.to discuss directly with any group of trans people we probably would. But there isn't, we can't and anywhere we do we get posts ranging from your signalling of your distaste to being directly told to fuck off and die. Simply for trying to work out why the biological fact of our sex has become yet another commodity for some men.

What you call transphobic bullshit is women saying no to those men!

So much to unpick but there is a thread on the norty step (AKA FWR) called 'break it down for me'. Make a coffee and have a read and then come back here and post your thoughts.

I don’t understand what it’s like to have been dear dysphoria any more than I understand people who feel they ‘should’ be amputees. It’s a mental disorder which causes distress.I have a lot of sympathy for them and think they need good therapy. I have been largely unconcerned about sharing spaces with these males.

I do understand young women who hate what womanhood and femininity means today and try and opt out of it - especially if they are same sex attracted as being a lesbian is lowest of the low.

I understand there are men who have a fetish for wearing women’s clothing and get off on the “humiliation” of being a woman. They are very open about it. I do not think these males belong in women’s spaces.

I am not “cis”. I am not a subset of my own sex. There is no such thing as a male woman.

First line should say “gender dysphoria”

Ok, so playing devils advocate- if you don’t believe in gender stereotypes (good) then why are you so sure you identify as a woman? (I’m asking that a little bit cheekily because clearly you do, as do I). So you wouldn’t be happy with someone referring to you as a “he” or “they / them” because you are a woman, you
know you’re a woman. From what I understand from those I know who are trans, they too “know” they identify as whatever they introduce themselves as. Nothing to do with clothes, or whatever else. If you wouldn’t be happy with someone calling you “he” or they / them then you can’t expect others not to want to change their own pronouns to suit them.

As a wider political movement, trans people (trans women, who are male) telling women that men can be women too, is the latest move of the patriarchy.

Controlling who is defined as a woman and what we are allowed to say is the ultimate misogynist move.

You will be experiencing it as a very different thing on an individual level. Individuals are individuals. At a political level it's anti women.

Was thinking the same.

Break it down for me? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

This probably explains me in the best way. I don't understand those who aren't actually transitioning but are wearing make up, skirts and having long hair. That to me is just cross dressing. Anyone who fully transitions and is therefore without the obvious bits, has in my mind and opinion, changed and should be referred to as trans xxxx.
I struggle with being labeled Cis as this means someone else has made a label for me.
I also don't understand why women's rights are being changed but mens don't seem to be. Transwomen are up in arms over people with a uterus or chest feeders but transmen don't seem to have a public platform for stand up wee'rs or those who tuck.

I find it annoying to be labeled as transphobic because I have an opinion on someone who only wears make up being able to call themselves a transwoman and expect me to stand in a changing room with what looks like a man with a beard and eye shadow.

Really? I don't think I've ever seen a post from a trans person on mumsnet. What kind of reception do they get here if they post? No trans people have replied on here so far so it's hardly a conversation with balanced perspectives.

"Transwidows" are not trans voices.

The OP says they know several trans people so maybe if their question is genuine and they really are interested in what trans people really think they could ask them? They could also search the internet for things trans people have written about their experiences. If all they want is for people to affirm what they're saying, and just a back and forth of people saying "no I don't understand it either, it must not be legit" then this was the right place to ask.

I also strongly believe that no one under 18 should be able to medically transition. The amount of children who think they're gay or trans when it's a major hormonal issues and puberty will correct it.

Yes I know its not like that in all cases but how many of you have dc who are currently wondering if they're gay...its mainly dd who struggle with the identity but no-one seems to notice.