To have questions about sex/gender

[Stereotypicallyconfused]

N/C for obvious reasons as likely to get called transphobic but genuinely just confused & want to understand.

I'm a cis woman & therefore clearly have no understanding of what it feels like to be trans & it's hard to have a conversation with people about it. Firstly, I don't think trans people should have to put in the emotional labour to explain (but equally I don't know how you get to understand without having conversations) and secondly, having questions inevitably gets you labelled as a bigot.

I've never questioned what it feels like to be a woman. I just feel like me & I've never thought that how I feel is defined by my sex. I like things that are stereotypically male pursuits & dislike things that are stereotypically female pursuits (and equally vice versa). I'm bisexual so don't fit the "norm" in that respect either.

I feel like wanting to change your gender plays into the gender stereotypes moreso than if you just lived how you wanted to live (wore what you want, liked what you want etc). If there's no intention of ever fully transitioning (I know people that aren't) then I don't understand why you need to say you're the opposite gender. Surely you're just you?!

I know several trans people and obviously respect their pronouns and treat them with the same respect and kindness I would anyone I know. Regardless of the fact I don't understand.

Ah! I see.

Maybe you could try the link above, actually read what JKR did post, does think.

No??

Why? Are our opinions invalid? Is this TransNet?

Maybe those posters have posted...

OP you said that as a woman you clearly have no understanding of what it feels like to be transgender.

Have you ever considered that, equally, a male transgender person has no understanding of what it's like to be a woman.

This is why they insist it's just about hairstyles and make up. This is why they inisist on putting everyone into stereotypical boxes. This is why they label everthing.

Think about it. Absolutely everything about this movement has a label. They even insist that we wear badges showing these labels.

And flags. So many flags.

If Transwomen ‘butt out’ of pretending to be women then you may have a point. But as long as those men are trying to colonise my sex I will NOT butt out.

Asking questions doesn’t make you a bigot in my opinion. It’s more the people who rubbish transgenderism or say it’s silly or make believe without attempting to understand what it is or how it feels. It’s the people who dismiss it or try to change the minds of transgender people are bigots. I think even if one doesn’t understand it there’s nothing stopping everyone from being tolerant and accepting.

I suppose some may have done without saying they're actually trans, that's fair, although the vast majority of responses here are very obviously not from trans people.

Are our opinions invalid? Well, I think if the OP wants to understand what trans people think and feel then none of us can really answer that if we're not trans, can we? Do you think we can?

@SamphirethePogoingStickerist why on earth would OP go to JK Rowling to understand how trans people feel or what they experience when she is not a trans woman? If someone wanted to understand the experience of a black woman would you point them in the direction of a white woman? How bizarre.

I don't understand this?

I would have an issue with someone calling me he (if on purpose!) because I am biologically female. There isn't any grey area about that.

I have been and am often referred to as Mr on letters or via telesales because my name is unisex and most people still assume it means I'm male. Back when drs notes were all paper and in blue/pink for sex mine were even filed under the wrong colour - despite the fact they'd met me!

What I find we don't get the answer too and is always bounced back is why a male (for example) wearing across, make up and being referred to as she feels female. Because as a biological female I can assure you all the years I've worn combats and trackies and had a very male dominant name and been called he - it's never made me feel male.

I will add neither has it ever bothered me.

It doesn't change me, who I am or my biological sex.

Which convinces me more and more towards the argument it's MH related. The pronouns give validation to feelings and they know it doesn't change anything else because gender is solely a social construct.

But I agree it's a very complex area and I don't think there's any easy answers either.

DD is non binary so isn’t seen as either gender although is much more female presenting with their style and what they’re like if that makes sense. I have a DS who is much more male-like / hard to explain. It’s their ‘way’ of being.
they don’t really like talking about it - but they’re also gay - it gets very confusing.
Saying you’re a lesbian but not identifying as female 🤷‍♀️
I just smile and wave (they’re a young adult) now as long as there’s no talk of body modifications ie, mastectomy.

I wondered about whether people couldn't just present how they want, but I was quite struck by a video from a trans woman explaining that she did try just presenting as female, but for her the 'him' and 'sirs' directed to her she found impossible to cope with as they profoundly did not fit her sense of self.

My teen identifies as non binary and has said they have 'never felt female'; I have said to them that that's normal, no one really 'feels' a gender, and then it struck me that's possibly one thing that defines trans people - that they 'feel' a gender where others don't, because it doesn't fit what they have been presumed to be.

This is the whole crux of it. People reject gender stereotypes assigned to their sex in society or are an amalgamation of those stereotypes and think that due to this, they're trans or non-binary as that's how it's been framed in the discourse. This encapsulates the majority of trans people.

Trans people with gender dysphoria are in a different category and it's a very serious and debilitating mental health condition. Those with dysphoria are more likely to choose surgical transition rather than purely social.

If you start asking questions about the first set, you'll never find an adequate answer. It goes round in circles and can't withstand scrutiny. If you state that people should be able to present how they like while remaining in their biological sex status, you'll be accused of being a transphobe.

I know several trans people and obviously respect their pronouns and treat them with the same respect and kindness I would anyone I know. Regardless of the fact I don't understand.

Personally, I don't think there's anything further that you would need to understand in the context of spending time with trans people and supporting them - you're already doing that, and the problem seems to be that it bothers you because of your own (perfectly valid) views on gender stereotyping.

I don't personally think that delving further into the basis of your friends' beliefs will help you to support them better - I think it's a recipe for disaster for the relationships unless you're prepared to change your own views or keep more of your real feelings hidden (which obviously becomes increasingly difficult over time).

Im not saying don't learn more about why people identify as trans as I think it's really important for women, especially, to understand this stuff. However, IME it's likely to make your relationships with trans people harder to navigate rather than easier.

I just feel like me, too. I have fought gender stereotypes, prejudice and discrimination all my life and am GC in that I recognise sex as immutable and different from gender.

But I can see that gender dysphoria is a real thing, and that people who experience it do not have that sense of ‘feeling like me’.

That deserves support and freedom from discrimination. No problem with anyone living their life within whatever gender expression they choose. We all do that to some extent.

But it doesn’t mean that other peoples sex based rights can be mown down (women’s sports etc) or that we should be expected to believe that sex is defined by gender. We need to ensure that Trans people can live their lives in fulfilment and freedom without us having to pretend stuff.

OP, start at the beginning - what is gender?

I watched an episode of drag race (bear with me)

They had to pair up and do their 'drag' to resemble their partner.

One man was aghast because he was white, paired with a black man and the black man suggested he match his skin colour. The white man was obviously very anxious about this and explained that he thought it would be inappropriate and he was not comfortable doing that.

Then they both happily dressed themselves up as caricatures of women. HOW is this ok?

Do they really not see how offensive it is to women. We are not a costume to be used for entertainment in the worst possible way.

I feel the same about men who declare 'I'm a woman now' just because they put on pink lipstick. It's offensive, all of it.

In the west they only want to be women now we've actually got the rights we fought for (hollow laugh). I'm sure women in Afghanistan can't identify out of their sex, or many other places around the world where women are oppressed.

This idea of stereotypical clothes and make up magically turning men into women is an absolute bloody disgrace imo.

Yeah! Cos that's what I meant, isn't it?

I very clearly meant that YOU should go and see what JKR actually said and thinks rather than relying on second had reportage. Her exact words are easily available. Link posted above!

And this is exactly why its difficult to ask questions and get sensible answers - sure I know why you dont like 'cis' and its not your job to educate people.

But likewise if someone is asking questions, your dismissive and rude response only shuts doors and gives mn users a bad name

A bad name?

Good grief. Now now ladies, be nice. You heard me at the back l, be fucking nice!

I think gender dysphoria is one of those things like depression. You can read descriptions and have it explained a million ways, a million times by a million people but you never really 'get it' unless you experience it for yourself.

@SamphirethePogoingStickerist i already have

People are people, all other pointless labels are bullshit imho.

We are all different but humans like to form groups and gangs so they have a perpetual us and them, this causes all bigotry and prejudices.

Quite a few of points of dispute boil down to what can and can't be an 'identity'.

There are aspects of the self that are material and objective - such as our sex, whether we have one leg or two, our height, our weight and our age. These cannot be identified in to / out of.

Society doesn't take a neutral view on many material aspects of self - and this changes over time and is different in different cultures. Societies tend to have widely accepted ideas about what being a certain age, sex, size means. If an individual doesn't agree with these ideas or if they don't think they apply to themselves, material reality is not wrong - the that dominant ideas in society don't align with their own.

For me, the solution lays in getting society to less prescriptive about the social meanings/ expectations given to material aspects of self.

Where individuals are distressed by their bodies, and this is separate to societal expectations, this is a mental health issue

And no-one can expect the whole world to lie about reality just to alleviate some uncomfortable symptoms experienced by a tiny proportion of society.

Let alone try to enforce it. People won't do it and the kick back of resistance will actually be harder for those genuinely suffering from dysphoria.

@WallaceinAnderland I agree. I feel great sympathy with them but I do think it is reprehensible that we are allowing children under 18 to damage themselves with hormone blockers and mutilate their bodies with surgery, often leaving them sterile in the name of being inclusive.

Mental health treatment is what they should be being referred for, not surgery to mangle their genitals.

🤨 People are people? Which are the people occupying 96% of prisons and responsible for the most amount of physical and sexual violence? Just a collection of individuals with nothing in common?