To have questions about sex/gender

[Stereotypicallyconfused]

N/C for obvious reasons as likely to get called transphobic but genuinely just confused & want to understand.

I'm a cis woman & therefore clearly have no understanding of what it feels like to be trans & it's hard to have a conversation with people about it. Firstly, I don't think trans people should have to put in the emotional labour to explain (but equally I don't know how you get to understand without having conversations) and secondly, having questions inevitably gets you labelled as a bigot.

I've never questioned what it feels like to be a woman. I just feel like me & I've never thought that how I feel is defined by my sex. I like things that are stereotypically male pursuits & dislike things that are stereotypically female pursuits (and equally vice versa). I'm bisexual so don't fit the "norm" in that respect either.

I feel like wanting to change your gender plays into the gender stereotypes moreso than if you just lived how you wanted to live (wore what you want, liked what you want etc). If there's no intention of ever fully transitioning (I know people that aren't) then I don't understand why you need to say you're the opposite gender. Surely you're just you?!

I know several trans people and obviously respect their pronouns and treat them with the same respect and kindness I would anyone I know. Regardless of the fact I don't understand.

This. 💯

"Transwidows" are not trans voices.

No they're not. They're the husbands of the women who experienced a great deal of abuse and coercion from their husbands.

As children of transwomen also experience.

www.transwidowsvoices.org/

childrenoftransitioners.org/

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?reply=74977577&utm_source=reply&utm_medium=share

This absolutely explains what we're seeing at the moment.

I'm always curious by the amount of posters on threads such as this - or twitter - who have 'several trans friends' or similar and often claim that of course it poses no issues bla bla bla.

For such a small percentage of the population I find it odd that your average person seems to know quite so many.

*They're the women who experienced a great deal of abuse and coercion from their husbands.

I am not sure how important/ necessary it is to understand what it is like to have experiences that others have. I think it's helpful/important to recognise that others' lived experiences can be different to ours and that we can't know what that's like.

I do not have a gender identity. I find it upsetting when others assume I do and impose this on me (eg by calling me cis). I use this experience to empathise with those who do have a gender identity and have others impose something unwanted on them too about their identity.

The challenge for me is that I am female (a term that I use to refer to my natal sex) and strongly reject and suggestions that this has any bearing on my choice of clothes, hobbies, or interests. I don't view being female as something you can identify in to or out of.

Therefore, I have issues with people using the term female to refer to an identity - let alone this identity being based on sexist stereotypes.

I think the solution to all of this lies in language, and having terms to depict sex- based categories and terms to depict gender-based categories. I accept that this is difficult for those who are distressed by their sex.

Gender is essentially a collection of outdated stereotypes. Being gender non conforming is fairly standard but doesn't convey special status. People who want to conform to stereotypes that don't match their birth sex can do so, no one is stopping them, they have the same rights as we all do to live, dress, be called what they like.

It becomes a problem when gender is conflated with sex and the sex based rights of the less powerful group are eroded.

Well I have a distant trans relative with a trans partner. It would be impossible to ask them anything directly - they are now so full of hate that you would be labelled transphobic for asking. Other, closer, relatives who were involved when they were still at the questioning stage have told me it's what you would expect - autistic homosexual young person who didnt like things stereotypical for their sex. Then they found Mermaids. Health is now ruined as is their partner's health.

I address them by name and I'll use their preferred pronouns when speaking to other family members. I knew nothing about the trans movement until
after their transition. I have not told my relatives that I'm upset at their safeguarding failure, they do know that I wont support Mermaids.

You probably know or have been around many trans people and won’t have even known. Several members of my family are very vocal when it comes to their opinions on trans people and yet they have been around dds friends from university, 3 of whom are trans, and they have not had a clue any of them were born male. We haven’t ever discussed it, why add more fuel to the fire, and they will never know.

I find it odd the other way round - that so many claim they don’t know any. I can think of at least 4 that I know of, and probably more that I’m not aware of.

It really isn’t as unusual as people want to make out. It’s just people don’t tend to go out wearing a badge declaring it and despite what Mumsnet wants us to think it isn’t always as obvious to tell as people think it is.

Yup, me too

’Cis’ means you accept women are purely women because they identify with regressive sex stereotypes. How can you consider yourself ‘cis’ if you reject these stereotypes? The fact that you like stereotypically male pursuits (like most women to some degree) would categorise you as non-binary under this system. But lo, you now have no word to define your sex. You have no way to ask for spaces free from males to get undressed, or have data to record your lower pay or means to object to it, no data on differential response to drugs based on sex, no means to ask for a female nurse to carry out your smear test. These have now all gone...

But yes, sure it is ‘kind’ to go along with the fantasy that destroys our rights and call men ‘she’ and record them as ‘female’ because it makes them feel powerful.

This

Yes. There are indeed some long term trans posters.

And if OP does ask her trans friends about this she may we get a very GC response. I did. That's what peaked me, about 5 years ago. I stopped defending them and actually asked them about their thoughts on gender and sex. Guess what? They don't think they have changed sex, don't think they are the opposite sex, they know who they are and find they are more comfortable in their own skin if they take on the external accoutrements of the opposite sex.

In short they would, and have, been vilified by Stonewalled TRAs. Because they don't toe the current "replace sex with gender, remove all single sex exemptions" line of thinking.

Don't presume...

Some of us were young Gender Benders of the 80s. We all have friends who maintained what is now called trans identities.

And it does/has posed issues. Issues that have changed over the decades. Anybody claiming that there have never been any problems is revising their personal history.

The thing about the new fangled trans activism, is that THEY call old school transsexuals 'truscum', the new fangled trans activism is as far from actual transsexuals as it is possible to be. They have taken it and formed it into a woman hating ideology.

This ideology currently has women calling themselves 'cis' as if they are a sub set of their own sex. They hate people who have had the 'op', and they are quite delighted to frighten you and your female relatives and friend in a female toilet with their penises and then get you kicked out for reporting them.

You probably know or have been around many trans people and won’t have even known. Several members of my family are very vocal when it comes to their opinions on trans people and yet they have been around dds friends from university, 3 of whom are trans, and they have not had a clue any of them were born male

😂😂

Sure...i bet I'm surrounded by penis-owners in dresses and make up daily and have no idea.

You win the award today for something else that never happened though. I mean not only does your DD have three trans women as friends, they're completely indistinguishable from women. No tells such as height, build, voice, Adams apple or just general facial construction, all the things that make your sex immediately distinguishable in the vast majority of humans...amazing! 😁

I'm a cis woman & therefore clearly have no understanding of what it feels like to be trans
If it is a given that a non trans person clearly can't know how it feels to be trans why isn't it also a given that a man clearly can't know how it feels to be a woman?

You agree with me then that the OP should ask her trans friends what they think, cool. And no we can't presume what their answers would be, as you've found.
Maybe would be nice to hear from some of those long term trans posters on this thread and the rest of us should butt out.

There are plenty of trans people who make content on sites like YouTube. If you want to hear from trans people about their experience (without actually asking them) I'd start by having a look?

I've found a link to a video of a trans man and his wife reacting to a JK Rowling essay - it's been ages since I watched it but I seem to remember it covering some main points.

I have a work colleague who is a trans woman.
A friend's step dad now lives as a trans woman.
My DS has a friend who is a trans girl and another who is a trans boy.
Another friend has announced this morning that their daughter is now a trans boy.

I probably know more trans people, these are just the ones that I can immediately recall.

It really isn't that uncommon and that is part of what I find confusing and somewhat concerning.

Or instead of watching a completely biased video you could read JKR own words and make up your own mind Read JKR own words and decide for yourself

Literally couldn’t care less if you believe me or not. I’m not making it up. 🙄 Dd lives in a house share of 6 students, 3 of them are trans. All take hormones etc and have done privately for some time. No one ever thinks they are male. But okay, yes I must be making it up.

Why is it so hard to believe that? 🤷‍♀️

It really isn't that uncommon and that is part of what I find confusing and somewhat concerning.

Yes you are right, it's becoming more common and many are very concerned.

But there's definitely a tone of wilfully obtuse in your post. On this forum you won't be met with calls of transphobia so there's no need for the faux 'but I don't understand'. Own your truth.