To have questions about sex/gender

[Stereotypicallyconfused]

N/C for obvious reasons as likely to get called transphobic but genuinely just confused & want to understand.

I'm a cis woman & therefore clearly have no understanding of what it feels like to be trans & it's hard to have a conversation with people about it. Firstly, I don't think trans people should have to put in the emotional labour to explain (but equally I don't know how you get to understand without having conversations) and secondly, having questions inevitably gets you labelled as a bigot.

I've never questioned what it feels like to be a woman. I just feel like me & I've never thought that how I feel is defined by my sex. I like things that are stereotypically male pursuits & dislike things that are stereotypically female pursuits (and equally vice versa). I'm bisexual so don't fit the "norm" in that respect either.

I feel like wanting to change your gender plays into the gender stereotypes moreso than if you just lived how you wanted to live (wore what you want, liked what you want etc). If there's no intention of ever fully transitioning (I know people that aren't) then I don't understand why you need to say you're the opposite gender. Surely you're just you?!

I know several trans people and obviously respect their pronouns and treat them with the same respect and kindness I would anyone I know. Regardless of the fact I don't understand.

Totally agree. Everyone is so aggressive about this and it isn’t necessary.

Same.

Ok, so playing devils advocate- if you don’t believe in gender stereotypes (good) then why are you so sure you identify as a woman?

The word ‘woman’ refers to adult female humans; our physical sex. Gendered stereotypes are sexist and harmful to women, reducing us down to regressive stereotypes is oppressive to women. By playing along with the idea that a man who wears a dress is ‘she’ you are suggesting that women are only women because they wear dresses. This is offensive nonsense. Women have nothing in common with Transwomen that we do not have in common with all other men.

You are also ignoring autogynaephilia (AGP) which is what drives most male transitions, not gender dysphoria. This is a paraphilia (sexual proclivity) where they are turned on by the idea of others seeing them as a women. Many transwomen (transvestites) acknowledge this. So for these men women are unconsenting participants in their sex life. Why should I support a man getting his sexual kicks by calling him ‘she’?

By calling yourself cis you are giving yourself a gender

Why do you think that your sex should determine that gender ?

You are a woman, plain and simple. No qualifying letters or words are required before that plain word in order to say what you are and be understood.

Then you know she said nothing transphobic.

Or could quote, using only sentences she actually typed, what is was JKR said that was transphobic.

You mean female posters here say no, vehemently or men, TRAs shouting at, spitting at, pushing shoving, wobbling their titties at women?

Women's words or make actions?

@SamphirethePogoingStickerist I never said JKR was transphobic - OP was looking to understand trans people and I suggested a trans YouTuber to her. I chose that video because it's one of the few I've seen and remembered that it covered lots of mainstream discussion points. OP wants to understand the trans perspective hence it being helpful to her to hear trans voices rather than yours, mine or JKR for that matter.

This is what you posted. A couple discussing the JKR essay. They have a bias, it shows. You, not OP could discuss this in more detail had you read JKRs own words. You say you have... so you will know that she said nothing that any trans individual would be bothered by. Assuming of course they too had read her words and not those of others discussing them.

Many here have seen and heard all sorts of total crap about what JKR is supposed to have said. And nobody has yet managed to supply a direct quote to back any of it up! You are merely the latest in a long line of posters trying to use disinformation to make a point.

Me too

Why did you refer to yourself as a cis women? You are a women.

Because they are not really that tiny a % of the population these days.

Any parent of teens most likely knows at least one as a place to start.

Once you accept that gender is real and determined by sex you create significant numbers of transgender people because gender isn't actually determined by sex at all - it's more closely related to personality than sex - eg you like pink and hate maths is nothing to do with sex

Historically transgender just referred to people with severe body dysmophpia - like anorexia but focussed on sex markers

With teenage girls you tend to have the 2 overlap because the changing female body is pretty freaky and associated with sexual abuse that most girls don't want

@SamphirethePogoingStickerist oh for heavens sake why are you so interested in directing this conversation to JKR's views? OP isn't asking about JKR, she's trying to understand trans people, why can't you see that JKR is not going to aid her in that understanding?

Of course they have a bias, they are trans, but isn't that the point of what she's searching for? If she was asking to understand the perspective of a gender critical voice directing her (or anyone else) to JKR would be reasonable.

I also haven't said she's transphobic so you're arguing with yourself about that point.

You aren't in a position to dictate what is or isn't offensive to a trans person, or what they should or shouldn't be bothered by. You aren't trans. It isn't up to you.

Have you just assumed that samphire isn't transgender?

I suspect many people are transgender if you dig deeply

I mean any female person who thinks women only describes their biology is strictly speaking transgender
Any female who doesn't feel aligned with any gender identify is strictly speaking transgender

, it's just many don't really care or don't want to be associated with the transgender community

Mm! Just remember you brought her into this thread. Not me!

@SuperPup86 you are aware of social contagion?

The fixation that men can do woman better than women can. That woman is a feeling, something that can be worn. The female is not what makes a woman.

That girls can fix their self hate, their worth in society, their sexual trauma, by becoming boys and rejecting their bodies. Removing their breasts and their uterus.

That under developed, infertile yet legally consenting adults can fulfil a whole host of paedophilic desires.

That in some countries it's better to be "a woman born in a man's body" than it is to be a gay man. Because the punishment for being gay, is death.

That womens rights are eroded with every step. Our opportunity, access and freedom in a fair and democratic society is saueezed. That laws are changed to allow anyone to be a woman, just because they say they are.

Wake up. This isn't a few people. It's a whole movement of sadistic patriarchy.

I used cis as a point of clarity I suppose. But perhaps I understand less than I thought.

It's not a term I'd use in general conversation or to describe myself irl.

I think the opposite.

I am biologically female, I don't think my relationship to gender stereotype affects my femaleness at all. I am fully woman even though I do not wear dresses, never had my nails done, go rock climbing, etc etc. Women can do and be what they want. It dowsn't make them trans men.

From what is happening amongst my friends daughters it seems that those who are not 'feminine' and / or are physically attracted to women, are now being defined as 'Trans'. Why? Why cannot they be young women who like short hair and dungarees and may or may not be attracted to other women? However 'deep' they dig? Why do these preferences , orientations, personality qualities, make them Transgendered?

And does this matter? Yes, it can do. A study many years ago showed that young people who followed certain fashionable logos (was it to do with the Beastie Boys and Swastikas?) revealed that once young people knew what the swastikas were and were challenged they would rather adopt the politics behind the logo than drop a logo that signalled them as 'cool' and at one with their peers.

This matters when an identity of Trans can lead to irreversible puberty blockers etc. which have been dispensed on an affirmation model.

Oh don't worry. Midge is pointing out the weird logic gender identity comes wrapped up in. Not any reality. If you take any gender identity, Stonewall's umbrella definition you end up realising that every human being on the planet has a unique gender.

And then you just can't unsee the stupidity of it all!

I think dreaming you are actually almost agreeing

You don't think that you have a gender that aligns with your sex and you don't see why anyone should

Which according to stonewall definition actually makes you transgender whether you like it or not

And if everyone who fits the stonewall definition stood up to be counted - what we are actually doing is showing how to be transgender without needing to be changed in any way , no damaging treatments, without the need to make a song and dance over it , without being special in any way

Feel you don't meet the current gender requirements- no bother
Hate your body and hate the way others treat you because of it? Change them not you

Woman isn't an identity. Its a sex. I know I am a woman because I am of the female sex. There is nothing else that makes me, or anyone else, a woman.

I certainly have never been upset at being called a he/him

I think men are more likely offended as to be a women is seen as lesser in society

You can’t just choose what you identify as though.
I could say I identify as a cat and say that’s how I feel but it wouldn’t be fair to expect others to go along with it and pretend they think I’m an actual cat.

Or I could ‘identify’ as a 6 year old and insist in going to a children’s swimming class and children’s gymnastics class.
I could speak in a baby voice and wear my hair in bunches and a pinafore and t-bar shoes.
I should expect all the other parents to be happy with me in their child’s swimming class and changing room and to pretend that they really believe I’m 6. They should treat me like all the other 6 year olds and invite me to their child’s birthday party and on play dates.

I don’t want to address a man wearing lipstick and a skirt as a woman and call him she/her and share my gym changing room with him, pretending I really believe he’s a woman. Just no. If he wants to wear lipstick and whatever clothes he chooses then great, no issues with men in make up or whatever, I just don’t want to pretend I think a man is a woman.

One of the most confusing aspects relates to language.
For me there are two biological sexes - there really isn't a third sex or intersex etc which is often dragged into discussions.

Then you have gender. Gender is a social construct - norms vary according to the society you live in.
If I go back to my A level sociology then I remember learning about societies where women went out and hunted and men stayed home and cooked to greatly paraphrase.

The big issue now is people believing gender can and should replace sex. This causes all kinds of problems. As biological women we understand our sex has oppressed us. We can point to clear biological differences between ourselves and men which mean we are different.

Replace sex with gender and we get
Men removing women from sport at all levels - from the three 800m medal winners at Rio to college women losing sports scholarships to fund university education.

Men, who commit most crime and most violent crime having easy access to womens spaces, prisons, rape support centres etc. we all know NAMALT but I'd choose to be in those spaces with unknown biological women not men. And that's before you consider there are sex offenders who will do pretty much anything to be able to commit crimes, so putting on a dress is an easy win,

We even have stonewall advocating same gender attraction and lesbians being told to include men in their dating pool.
What is being gay about if it isn't same sex attraction?

So to me it's a clear choice. Sex should not be replaced in law or society by gender.