To not want to meet with children there.

[Ger1atricMillennial]

AIBU to want to meet with my friend without her children there?

I live in a foreign country and have been very isolated since moving and during the pandemic I went on medication for depression and worked through it with therapy. I have been off it for 9 months and the therapy has helped me move forward and I feel so much better.

One of my closest friends from high school has family in the place that I live, and has come over during the rest of her maternity leave. We have been close in the past, but in the last few years the contact has got less frequent- no doubt due to the distance + life. However; over the last few years everytime we speak on the phone her toddler interrupts or throws a tantrum, and a few times I was on speakerphone and I didn't know and her husband and mum were in the room. This was when I wasn't very well, so I lost some trust there.

Since my friend has arrived I have met up with her twice; both times she had her toddler and breastfeeding baby. As you can imagine it has been very hard to have any meaningful converstation with her and after both times I have just felt so lonely and unimportant afterwards.

She offered to meet up for brunch, but when I asked if she was bringing her children (more specifically the toddler)- she said most likely. I then declined stating that I would be happy to meet up when she feels ready to without her children. That was 2 days ago and I haven't recieved a reply.

I really felt the loss yesterday and cried alot. I understand her bringing the baby and would be more supportive if she was a single mum, but her husband and his family are here and they love spending time with the children. I am also a little bit sensitive to the fact that if I was a man I wouldn't even have to think about this problem at all if I asked to meet with my friend.

At this stage I wouldn't feel comfortable disucssing the above with my friend directly. I think she may be struggling alot more that she is letting on and adding to it would make it worse or she just wouldn't be able to engage. But since I can't speak to her in any meanginful way; I don't know this for sure.

So as I dont have children; can you tell me if this is ones of those things that against the laws of nature and is outrageous for me to think about asking her; or is it her personal choice and has anyone actually navigated this situation successfully before?

I am over the emotional part of the loss, so be as honest and direct as you like with your feedback.

I think you should have suggested perhaps that she could just bring the baby and the dad take care of toddler so you can have a proper catch up.

I think it will have come across rude to say the way you did although I totally get where you're coming from.

Probably too late now as you have already offended her but you could try saying "hope that didn't come across as rude I absolutely love spending time with your children but if you have the time would enjoy a catch up just us two so we can have more of a chat."

I think the way you've said it is really rude, I'd be really put out if I was your friend and unlikely to meet up.

It sounds like you could do a friend/company more than her and putting conditions on it has deterred her. She possibly feels offended/hurt that you asked her not to bring her child. Not sure if you were tactful in your message and applied any sugarcoating or not from what you’ve said.
If you need the friendship then apologise and accept she’ll bring her children along to meet ups. Even with family and a partner it can be tricky to negotiate childfree time- she might prefer to save it for a night out or a celebration/boozy lunch etc than a casual catch up.

Your friend has different priorities now. I'm sure she still really cares about you but her children will always come first. Maybe she feels like you've asked her to choose between you and them. Parents have a tough time accepting why anyone wouldn't want to spend time with their children. You need new friends, people who you have things in common. If you still want to see this friend you will have to realise her children come as part of the package now, especially the child who realises on it's Mother's milk. Good luck with your situation, it sounds like you have come far which is amazing.

While it may seem that she has options her toddler could have separation anxiety or leaving them could cause issues.

The reality is that they need her and she is their number 1.
I wouldn't be thrilled by that text and wouldn't be in a rush to reply.

You're fine, you have nothing to apologise for, and she's just another example of someone who thinks everything should revolve around them and their baby. There are a lot of threads on this at the moment.

And what she did, putting you on speakerphone when you were talking about personal issues, is so nasty of her.

This.

Wow thanks for all your quick replies.

Can I just ask how is me not wanting to spend time with her children rude, and how would you go about asking for some child-free time with her?

She's breastfeeding a baby - how would you like the baby to eat whilst you enjoy a child free catch up? She doesn't owe you time without her kids. They're her priority. If you don't want to be around them that's your choice, the same way it's her choice not to leave them to facilitate you.

From a different perspective I have kids but actually would never take my kids if I was meeting a friend for brunch. I wouldn’t be offended by your message either. You haven’t done anything wrong but it depends on your wording of course. I hope you get the time you need with your friend.

I honestly think you need to accept that she doesn’t want to spend her child free time with you.

Thanks for the support- though I don't think she was nasty just maybe a bit inconsiderate.

Have you managed to navigate this situation sucessfully before?

I think it was just some clumsy wording when you replied. I think when some women have children they think that they are the most precious thing in the world and everyone should want to spend time with them. Reality is, you don't have children and you want some time with just your friend, which is understandable. I think I would have worded it differently.
'Instead of brunch, do you fancy going for a evening out for a few cocktails so we can have a proper catch up?'
There's no way the kids would be present at that.

So nasty and unneeded.

Thanks for the reply, but I don't think that is the case at all.

You’ve asked for her time without her children and it’s up to her whether she accommodates that. Nothing more you can do really- you can’t force her to meet you without the kids. She might feel irritated by you or that you’re too needy/demanding and has decided to cool things a bit. Give her space.

you don’t know the set up in her family even if you think you do. Maybe she doesn’t trust her family enough to leave DC with them. I didn’t. Believe me from the outside my family is nice and caring, especially my mum but the reality is different, she lacks common sense completely.
Maybe her DH works online while they are visiting. Again my DH often does this.
Maybe she has some mental health issues and as a result struggles with leaving DC.
Maybe she is in abusive relationship and her DH doesn’t allow her to go on her own. ( I hope not)
The most obvious reason is that she has problem with her toddler who is going through this particular tricky attachment stage and obviously she can’t leave her breastfed baby. You were very rude and she probably cried even more then you about your attitude.

You don't. Because if it was an option she would've done it.

Right now this is her life. Hold off (if you can) a few years and it'll get easier, unless she has more.

But right now she is probably not able to be your support. She is more than likely being drained of everything she can give.

Asking to separate a breastfeeding mother from her infant is rude

a toddler is different. There are polite ways to suggest a toddler free outing. If she has trouble getting away you could also work with her to pick an outing where the toddler will be easier to keep occupied

Yup I have tried to coax her out to an adult venue but she just looks at me at says I can't.

Like I said in the intial post I am a bit annoyned because her husband went away for a whole weekend with his friends, and I can't even get 90 mins.

Sorry OP but I don’t think she will bother to text back for a while.

If you don’t have young children it can be impossible to understand the minute-by-mi Ute demands of a toddler and breastfeeding baby.

She is probably pissed off with you because despite being insanely busy with small DC she managed to make time for you, and you essentially say it wasn’t enough because she also brought the DC. She will have put you on speaker phone cos she was doing stuff.

You are not her priority. That’s as it should be. But as her children get older she will be fine to meet you without them.

YANBU to want to meet up without the children. But I would say you're on different paths at the moment. She obviously doesn't want to leave them.

I was always happy to meet up friends without my children there. I actually think it's making a rod for your own back to never leave them. They never get used to being with other caregivers.

I don't think you are remotely unreasonable to want to catch up without at least the toddler (an entirely breastfed baby is a bit different) but you could have handled it more tactfully. Something like "I've loved getting to spend some time with your kids but I'd also love to have a catch up just the two of us (plus baby if you can't leave her) so we can have a proper heart to heart". FWIW, for people in this position late dinner after the kids are in bed - even if you just go to their house and order takeaway - is usually easier than trying to get someone else to look after the kids during the day and mucking up the routine.

We are visiting our home country and are making a point of seeing various close friends for dinner after our and their DC are in bed (lucky to have grandparents to babysit). We just say "we'd love to meet up with all the kids too but let's also have dinner together so we can have a proper adult conversation."

It's different for him as he isn't breastfeeding.