To not want to meet with children there.

[Ger1atricMillennial]

AIBU to want to meet with my friend without her children there?

I live in a foreign country and have been very isolated since moving and during the pandemic I went on medication for depression and worked through it with therapy. I have been off it for 9 months and the therapy has helped me move forward and I feel so much better.

One of my closest friends from high school has family in the place that I live, and has come over during the rest of her maternity leave. We have been close in the past, but in the last few years the contact has got less frequent- no doubt due to the distance + life. However; over the last few years everytime we speak on the phone her toddler interrupts or throws a tantrum, and a few times I was on speakerphone and I didn't know and her husband and mum were in the room. This was when I wasn't very well, so I lost some trust there.

Since my friend has arrived I have met up with her twice; both times she had her toddler and breastfeeding baby. As you can imagine it has been very hard to have any meaningful converstation with her and after both times I have just felt so lonely and unimportant afterwards.

She offered to meet up for brunch, but when I asked if she was bringing her children (more specifically the toddler)- she said most likely. I then declined stating that I would be happy to meet up when she feels ready to without her children. That was 2 days ago and I haven't recieved a reply.

I really felt the loss yesterday and cried alot. I understand her bringing the baby and would be more supportive if she was a single mum, but her husband and his family are here and they love spending time with the children. I am also a little bit sensitive to the fact that if I was a man I wouldn't even have to think about this problem at all if I asked to meet with my friend.

At this stage I wouldn't feel comfortable disucssing the above with my friend directly. I think she may be struggling alot more that she is letting on and adding to it would make it worse or she just wouldn't be able to engage. But since I can't speak to her in any meanginful way; I don't know this for sure.

So as I dont have children; can you tell me if this is ones of those things that against the laws of nature and is outrageous for me to think about asking her; or is it her personal choice and has anyone actually navigated this situation successfully before?

I am over the emotional part of the loss, so be as honest and direct as you like with your feedback.

@Ger1atricMillennial

Are you wanting 1-1 time with your friend to have fun or talk through problems? I think some other posters have made valid points about her possibly not really having any emotional energy left to chat about problems & finds it hard work to meet up.

If you make it a competition between you and her dc, you are going to lose. Your friend is at a stage if life where you cannot separate her from parenthood. You have been clear your friendship comes with conditions, and those conditions involve being separate from her dc, so I'm not surprised she has not decided to meet. I'd guess you can take her friendship as it is (and having contact with her dc is likely part of that) or not, and it sounds like you need a friend.

How old is the bf baby? It isn't just about not being there for 90 minutes if it's over a time they need feeding, there's the travel time and the time needed to feed to.

Also sounds like she has a DH who doesn't pull his weight and won't take the kids.
. Which is shitty obv but she clearly doesn't feel she can just walk out and leave them.

Can you suggest meeting somewhere like soft play so at least toddler is entertained?

Oh yeah I can wait it out, it just felt like a loss because I guess she is the first person I have seen for 3 years from home and well I we have both changed, and I have been looking forward to seeing her and it was so different and I am concerned about her doing to much too.

I am worried because I know a lot of mums lose friends when they have children, and this friendship would be a big loss for me. As a lot of people have pointed out you cant be there for your friends because it is so overwhelming being a parent... In my defense it is also very overwhelming to move to a different county but I understand like children it was also a choice.

I think the only reason I am actually annoyed is that that there doesnt seem to be isn't an option that her husband can't look after the toddler for an hour or so. He isnt working, and she has previouly worked full time inbetween the children so the toddler can be around other people.

It is hard, and it can feel like a loss. I felt that way. The only thing in my experience is to decide whether it is worth it to keeps lines of communication open.

I hope you manage to develop other friendships, although I definitely know that isn't necessarily easy either. Good luck.

OP being blunt, yabu. You’re asking way too much of her and you’re being unbelievably selfish. You have said yourself she’s struggling -what exactly are you doing to help her? She made time for you, despite probably being exhausted, but it’s not good enough for you. She’s got a tiny baby and a toddler, you are expecting her to use the tiny amount of child free time she might be able to wangle, during maternity leave, to listen to your woes.

I have a friend who always asks to meet up without the children. I almost always say no, and I do find it a bit rude/entitled.

I could only meet her without the children after DH gets home from work, and that's peak dinner/bedtime routine time so not very convenient. Or at the weekend but we then have birthday parties, seeing family and friends who actually like the children, trips out etc.

I also have plenty of with-children time available to see her, but very little child-free time available and I have lots of other things I need to fit into that time.

She has the choice - see me a lot less on her terms, or see me more with children in tow. You have the same choice. You can insist that she's child free but you'll need to expect to see her much less.

azimuth299 can I just ask why does feel rude and entitled for your friend to want to meet up with you without your children. Is it possible to even explain as this is the point that I must be missing?

From my point of view its just an hour to speak to someone I care about without interruption or worrying that it would be repeated to other especially when there is no filter, and that isnt entitled to ask for that.

What does she gain from that hour?
On the nicest way I can do through text you seem to want to use her to unload. Isn't she in a foreign country away from home?

Would that hour be relaxing for her? Because the odds are getting to it wouldn't be relaxing. It would be hard. So it would have to be a really brilliant hour to make that worth it.

Yanbu. I bf all of mine but it was still possible to leave the house without them for 90 mins and longer if I took just the baby.

dh was perfectly capable of having them for a few hours.

Some women's dh/partner won't step up, or they different priorities, or various other reasons. And some women simply don't want to.

I don't think it is rude or entitled of you to ask but I might have phrased the request itself differently.

You didn’t ask her whether she’d like to meet without the children you told her that you were not willing to meet with either child there, including the breastfed baby. I think some of your responses are telling that you feel ‘entitled’ to her undivided attention, presumably so you can speak about your mental health? You’ve said that you haven’t been that close for a while so I expect it’s all too much. You’re not entitled to her time. Presumably she’s moved there to spend some time with the family and children (it’s a bit odd that they’ve moved in with parents perhaps there’s something you don’t know about). She has a partner and young children she’s probably not looking for an intense friendship, probably doesn’t have the energy or inclination to go out of an evening for a few cocktails and might like to spend any child free time doing things she can’t do with the children like getting a haircut etc. she obviously likes you if she’s met up twice and was planning a third meeting, why not just meet how she is happy meeting and look for other single friends without young children?

Because I'm knackered and burnt out and she wants me to spend the tiny amount of free time I have providing her with moral support - but even that's not good enough unless I also come without the children (which is a massive pain to arrange).

She doesn't consider that maybe if I have rare child free time I might want to do something for me, rather than provide her with support. I love her to bits but she doesn't understand that it's really too much to ask.

Interesting.. I suppose I hadnt seen it as transactional and I don't think she necessairly would either.

We wouldn't have to talk about me, like I said I have seeing a psychologist. But I havent seen her for 3 years so I am sure it would do us good to speak unguarded and uninterrupted for a bit.

I suppose I mentioned it in my OP to give some insight into my mindset and to why I was sensitive rather than practical about it.

Yeah, OP, how dare you want to confide in your friend about things that are affecting you. That's not what friends are for! All interactions must be mutually beneficial and fun.

I think I am getting somewhere with these replies.

Maybe we arent that close any more and so when I suggested meeting up without children it was misintrpeted as never meeting up without children ever again or that I needed to use her to offload in a way but that isn't the case.

I just want to meet her because she is my friend and we like talking to each other and I care about how she is getting on.

And sure if she wants to use her child-free time for other things than seeing me than that is fine and if seeing me isn;t relaxing in anyway for her then yes I agree she should definately have some time and I dont have a problem with that.

I certainly don't feel entitled to her time or attention which is why I said when she is ready to meet I will be there. But I was never given a choice of meeting with or without the kids, its always lets meet, and then the children are there.

Yea at certain times they do need to be. Like when someone's emotional bank is at zero and they have no more left to give and just can not take on anyone else's problems.

This is true, and my friend isn't really a listener more of a fixer so I wouldnt really be looking at offloading that much, like I said she has a lot on her plate.

Can I ask if when you have children, would you not want to consider coffee with a friend as a way offloading your problems on to you or is it that you just want to sit in your car and eat cake?

I would only want to offload to someone who has experienced what I have.
And also the effort is just so huge now.
So I take sitting in front of my kitchen door and eating cake and blasting music while I'm alone in the car.

But that does me. Everyone is different.

I don't think there is any problem wanting to see your friend without children, apart from the fact you didnt ask, you told her and bf babies go where their mum is

There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to plan a meet up without children, even the breastfeeding baby, who can be left for a couple of hours, longer with an expressed bottle of milk. I'm surprised that your friend does not relish a small amount of time away from her children. Obviously it should be her choice, I hope it's not because she has a partner who feels childcare is her domain.

I don't think either one of you is wrong. You're just in different places in life right now and they're not matching up very well. Maybe this friendship can stay on the back burner for now and pick up more again in a few years when her kids are older.

Fair enough, if you dont have the bandwidth to explain something to someone else who hasnt experienced it I understand.

You just can’t get it if it hasn’t been you in the situation.

When I had a toddler and a baby, there were days when washing myself was too hard. When I didn’t get undressed to go to bed because I knew I’d be up multiple times in the night so it didn’t seem worth it. When organising someone to look after the DCs for me so I could go out without them felt like an absolutely insurmountable task, even if that person was DH, because if he took them then I would have to express, and make sure everything was ready for him, and transfer the car seats and pram from my car to his just in case, and and and.

I had literally nothing left in the tank. Nothing. I couldn’t have done a 90 minute meet up without the kids for anyone or anything. It would have broken me. And I’m not exaggerating.

But if someone had told me pre-DC just how hard it would be then I wouldn’t have believed them. They just couldn’t have explained it so I would understand. And I’m a very smart professional who now has a 15 year old and a 13 year old and those times seem like a dream.

It passes. But right now, you just have to accept that she can’t give you what you want no matter how much you want it or how unfair that seems to you.

Less sit in the car and eat cake, and more perform basic self care when the children are that young! Take a bath, exercise, read, stare into space enjoying the fact that nobody is touching me - that kind of thing!

Thanks Murdoch... like I had said in previous posts I didn't understand, why it was so wrong, especially as I have made the effort to slot into her plans previoulsy.

I can only project my interpretations as to why she feels she can't leave her kids, she has a supportive husband; so I guess I have been taking it a little bit personally when she says she just can't even consider it.