To not want to meet with children there.

[Ger1atricMillennial]

AIBU to want to meet with my friend without her children there?

I live in a foreign country and have been very isolated since moving and during the pandemic I went on medication for depression and worked through it with therapy. I have been off it for 9 months and the therapy has helped me move forward and I feel so much better.

One of my closest friends from high school has family in the place that I live, and has come over during the rest of her maternity leave. We have been close in the past, but in the last few years the contact has got less frequent- no doubt due to the distance + life. However; over the last few years everytime we speak on the phone her toddler interrupts or throws a tantrum, and a few times I was on speakerphone and I didn't know and her husband and mum were in the room. This was when I wasn't very well, so I lost some trust there.

Since my friend has arrived I have met up with her twice; both times she had her toddler and breastfeeding baby. As you can imagine it has been very hard to have any meaningful converstation with her and after both times I have just felt so lonely and unimportant afterwards.

She offered to meet up for brunch, but when I asked if she was bringing her children (more specifically the toddler)- she said most likely. I then declined stating that I would be happy to meet up when she feels ready to without her children. That was 2 days ago and I haven't recieved a reply.

I really felt the loss yesterday and cried alot. I understand her bringing the baby and would be more supportive if she was a single mum, but her husband and his family are here and they love spending time with the children. I am also a little bit sensitive to the fact that if I was a man I wouldn't even have to think about this problem at all if I asked to meet with my friend.

At this stage I wouldn't feel comfortable disucssing the above with my friend directly. I think she may be struggling alot more that she is letting on and adding to it would make it worse or she just wouldn't be able to engage. But since I can't speak to her in any meanginful way; I don't know this for sure.

So as I dont have children; can you tell me if this is ones of those things that against the laws of nature and is outrageous for me to think about asking her; or is it her personal choice and has anyone actually navigated this situation successfully before?

I am over the emotional part of the loss, so be as honest and direct as you like with your feedback.

The notion that friends are obliged to offer babysitting is really offensive.

From my point of view its just an hour to speak to someone I care about without interruption or worrying that it would be repeated to other especially when there is no filter, and that isnt entitled to ask for that.

sorry but it really does sound like you want to offload and talk AT her for an hour with undivided attention. Have you not been back 'home' at all or in contact with any other friends recently and no plans to?

To be honest If I were visiting family we rarely saw with my toddler and the toddler didn't know them I wouldn't leave him with them to see a friend for coffee. My priority would be my child.
I wouldn't leave a breastfed baby either, it's too much like hard work for time without kids that people seem to think all mums need. Much easier to take the baby, feed as needed and have a relaxing time for me and baby.
She probably thinks you aren't bothered and don't really want to see her seeing you are putting restrictions on her seeing you.

I think the only reason I am actually annoyed is that that there doesnt seem to be isn't an option that her husband can't look after the toddler for an hour or so. He isnt working, and she has previouly worked full time inbetween the children so the toddler can be around other people.

I think you misunderstand the nature of life with very small children. If both parents work, they’re knackered and want to use their time off to spend time with their kids and with each other. If she’s a SAHM, then she’s the primary carer and her DH has been working and is knackered, so either wants some family time or wants some downtime himself. I was at home with my kids at that age, so I wouldn’t have found it a problem at all to come and have a coffee with you - but I’d have thought leaving the kids with DH was a much bigger deal and something I’d reserve for something special that I couldn’t do with the kids (eg a trip to the theatre or something). I’d have found your request difficult and irritating, to be brutally honest.

When I had a breastfed baby and a toddler, life was hell. Wonderful, sure, but also hell. Trying to find the time to get showered and dressed in the morning was so difficult, and getting out for a walk with them both would often take me two hours while you went through the cycle of getting the three of us dressed, toddler fed, baby fed, baby fell asleep feeding, sorting toddler, baby changed, etc.

The fact she's offered to deal with all of those stressful logistics with time pressure just to see you, and you've thrown that back in her face saying that's not good enough because you won't have her undivided attention would really hurt.

She's in a really hard phase of her life at the moment, and you are heaping more pressure and her failure onto her because you don't want to be inconvenienced by what she has going on.

Yes, adult conversations when young children are there are difficult, usually interrupted, hard to follow and it's hard to discuss anything that requires concentration. That's just how it is for a few years. Believe me, I'm sure she's aware of that.

I have a friend who, while I was on holiday with my young children, insisted on me dragging them across the city to see her, in the evening, in a restaurant, supposedly so she could "meet my youngest", even though i was saying it would be very difficult, then what she actually wanted was to show me her 500 wedding photos. I politely scrolled through them while trying to handle a tired preschooler and fractious, exhausted toddler and then she was complaining that I wasn't clicking on each picture and zooming in for a better look. I spent the whole time wanting to scream.

You are being unreasonable. When I was breastfeeding I couldn't leave my baby. They fed on demand meaning I literally could not leave them, expressing does not work for everyone. Under the age of 5 my kids came everywhere with me. You should be more understanding.

Your friendship is alot like dating someone with children who dosent have children themselves, the person with the kids can't see the problem bringing them along with them for a few drinks or a meal and catchup with friends whilst the kids are constantly interrupting, it's very annoying, but unfortunately they're priorities have changed now and people with kids you either have to accept or find new friends or be prepared to be labeled horrible and selfish by them for saying anything about they're kids

It's really hard work to leave a breastfed baby. Yes, it's doable, but hard. I've left mine a few times (mostly to do school and other stuff with my older child, when I can't take the baby along) and it involves a significant amount of prep in terms of sterilising bottles and pumps, expressing (which can take hours), timing the last feed right so I can get out of the house on time while also similtaneously getting the older child ready. And my baby doesn't love bottles but will take them eventually, so whoever is looking after them is probably in for a lot of screaming, moaning and grousing while I'm away.

I think you're underestimating the amount of effort involved in your friend getting out to meet you for a couple of child-free hours. Have you tried offering to go to her house after the toddler's bedtime and bring dinner?

It's come across rude the way you've done it. You've asked are the kids going to be there, she's said probably, so you've said OK ill wait til they are not there. She is likely very offended by that.

You'd be better being honest with her and saying you've been in a bad place and could really do with some one to one adult conversation and would she be ok with that.

I don't know how you expect a phone conversation without being interrupted by a toddler.

Regardless of not having children surely you can understand that she can't she meet without children if her baby is exclusively breastfed? Neither of mine would take a bottle so I literally couldn't leave them until they were reliably eating solids.
You've probably made her feel shit and as though you don't want to see her because she has children. Most of us would be quite happy to have a child free meet up but don't have the option due to childcare.
I'd be absolutely gutted if my friend refused to meet me until I couldn't bring my breastfed baby with me.
Young children are temporary, you'd hope most friendships would remain strong throughout different phases of peoples lives. If I was her I'd not be back in touch. Hopefully she has some lovely understanding friends who enjoy her company regardless.

Jesus OP
This seems to be all about you?
You say she has a lot in her plate, but recognise that it is a reason for her not doing what suits you.
Her husband could be one of those horrible twats who complain about looking after her children. Perhaps she does get support from her parents, but needs to reserve it for working etc.

Have you thought that these few years when her kids are very needy ARE tough, and involve compromise. Do you have any interest in getting to know her kids? And maybe letting her talk to you about her life?

You two have pressing priorities that conflict for the present.

A ‘proper catch up’ on her situation is that she is full on with childcare. What you mean by a ‘proper catch up’ to talk about ‘how things really are’ means how they are for YOU. You want to talk to her about your feelings and situation.

Don’t take her lack of availability personally.

It is really common for people to have less time for friends once childcare becomes an issue.

I think overall it will be better for you to look for friends closer to your own circumstance than press for her to meet your needs. But stay friends for what she IS able to do.

I think you would have come across as a bit rude. It does appear that you are looking for her to be able to give you her full attention more as a support/therapist instead of meeting for a catch up. I think if that's what you wanted from her , you should have maybe said that.

Sorry but it's very rude to say you don't want her to bring her kids, yes you obviously aren't keen on them but children go with their parents end of. I was 5 years before I left mine !

@Ger1atricMillennial

Basically her children are more important than her relationship with you so you need to fit around them. If you become a parent you will understand

@elfd

you can still put your kids first and still take out for yourself to have a chat with a mate, leave the kids at home with their dad
the OP’s friend isn’t a package with her kids, she’s still her own person and needs time to herself including time to maintain her friendships

@gogohmm

you can still put your kids first and still take out for yourself to have a chat with a mate, leave the kids at home with their dad

the OP’s friend isn’t a package with her kids, she’s still her own person and needs time to herself including time to maintain her friendships

All these posters saying that their kids went everywhere with them until they were 5!

are you exaggerating??

they went with you to the gym? To the hairdressers? To a hospital appointment? Etc etc

Why didn’t you leave them with their dad??

You sound like you’re struggling to see other people’s point of view and needs, “how is it rude to not want to see her children” - and that is the most polite way I can put it. She has a breastfeeding baby. The baby literally needs her tits to eat. And babies eat often. I didn’t think it would be difficult for an adult to understand.

you also don’t sound like you’re interested in supporting her or hearing about her life in what involves drastic life changes for her - having 2 babies.

Whilst it’s ok to want to meet up with your friend without a toddler and a baby in tow, you were rude in how you put this across to her, and are coming across as selfish and unrealistic about the circumstances of her friend. If she has a baby and you are a supportive friend, you’d make some allowances and think about how you communicate this, which you haven’t done, from your posts. Depression can make us self centred in its own specific way. That’s not your fault but you Do need discuss this in therapy to have a better understanding.

'Like I said in the intial post I am a bit annoyned because her husband went away for a whole weekend with his friends, and I can't even get 90 mins.'

You were annoyed? It's none of your business what your friend and her dh do.

You have 2 choices, accept the kids at catch ups maybe interact and give them treats? Or let the friendship slide. You absolutely cannot request she doesn't bring her kids, if she didn't want to she wouldn't. You asking would make the whole meet up very awkward.

That’s for OP’s friend to decide, not OP.

for me personally, time without my kids is rare and precious! I’m not sure I’d want to spend that with a friend who (from what it sounds like) wants spend a couple of hours talking about her mental health and is looking for support. It sounds quite one-sided and frankly, exhausting

YABVU. This post is all me me me as is so often the case with those suffering with depression.

I would not want to leave my children to meet with a “friend” who so obviously doesn’t like them.

Yes, I have plenty of people to look after them should I choose to, but I choose not to, because I wouldn’t want to be away from them.

Absolutely this. The pressure of doing the right thing for everyone else, when she's not getting the support from her friend, must be a lot. No wonder she hasn't texted back.

I think Aprilx has phrased this bluntly but in honesty OP sounds like she needs a lot from this meet up and at the bf baby stage most people (if exclusive breastfeeding) would be reluctant to use precious hours between feeds to rush out and be an emotional crutch.

OP your friend is getting through a very exhausting stage of parenting and just may not be in a place to give you what you need at this point in time. The timing is just not right but keep in touch if you value the friendship as things will be different in a year or so.