To not want to meet with children there.

[Ger1atricMillennial]

AIBU to want to meet with my friend without her children there?

I live in a foreign country and have been very isolated since moving and during the pandemic I went on medication for depression and worked through it with therapy. I have been off it for 9 months and the therapy has helped me move forward and I feel so much better.

One of my closest friends from high school has family in the place that I live, and has come over during the rest of her maternity leave. We have been close in the past, but in the last few years the contact has got less frequent- no doubt due to the distance + life. However; over the last few years everytime we speak on the phone her toddler interrupts or throws a tantrum, and a few times I was on speakerphone and I didn't know and her husband and mum were in the room. This was when I wasn't very well, so I lost some trust there.

Since my friend has arrived I have met up with her twice; both times she had her toddler and breastfeeding baby. As you can imagine it has been very hard to have any meaningful converstation with her and after both times I have just felt so lonely and unimportant afterwards.

She offered to meet up for brunch, but when I asked if she was bringing her children (more specifically the toddler)- she said most likely. I then declined stating that I would be happy to meet up when she feels ready to without her children. That was 2 days ago and I haven't recieved a reply.

I really felt the loss yesterday and cried alot. I understand her bringing the baby and would be more supportive if she was a single mum, but her husband and his family are here and they love spending time with the children. I am also a little bit sensitive to the fact that if I was a man I wouldn't even have to think about this problem at all if I asked to meet with my friend.

At this stage I wouldn't feel comfortable disucssing the above with my friend directly. I think she may be struggling alot more that she is letting on and adding to it would make it worse or she just wouldn't be able to engage. But since I can't speak to her in any meanginful way; I don't know this for sure.

So as I dont have children; can you tell me if this is ones of those things that against the laws of nature and is outrageous for me to think about asking her; or is it her personal choice and has anyone actually navigated this situation successfully before?

I am over the emotional part of the loss, so be as honest and direct as you like with your feedback.

Nut for some that's the way it is. My husband has been away for a week here and there over the years. I can't. Because I'm their primary care giver. I'm the one they want. And that's fine this is what I've chosen.

And if she's happy with it then she isn't going to distress her children for something that she doesn't have to.

Now you get to choose whether or not to continue the friendship based on her new priorities. But don't start a fight over you or her kids.

How on earth does she think the world revolves around her and her baby? She’s breastfeeding ffs and if her baby is young she probably doesn’t want to leave them. You’re so judgemental.

Her husband went away for a weekend solo presumably because he wanted to. Your friend doesn’t want to meet you without her children for the same reason. She doesn’t have to justify that to you. You sound as if you think you’re competing for her attention with a baby and toddler.

Bluntly, most mums just don’t have the bandwidth for 90 minutes of a friend telling them about their depression.

It has to be give-and-take. If you can’t ‘give’ on the toddler being there, you are not going to get ‘take’ on your friend listening to your problems.

You are not unreasonable to want to have a chat without her kids but she probably just can’t offer you that. You are unreasonable for thinking that it’s so easy.
She put you on speaker because she probably was breastfeeding.

From your post. You were rude but that might just be the way the text is written.

As someone without children, you can't understand the demands they place on you. Agree with a PP upthread about potentially dinner at her house after bedtime. It's the only sane time in my house and tbh, whilst I'm not an absolute stickler for routine, the days I leave the DC with my DH is CARNAGE. They have so much fun, but it takes me 2 days to catch back up to a normal feeding and nap routine. 🤣

It's not like leaving a dog at home for a couple of hours, you just need to accept this. As much as you want support from your friend, I think you need to understand having a toddler and a breastfeeding baby is also hard, and your friend might have appreciated YOUR support as much as you want hers.

It can be exhausting meeting with friends who want to have deep discussions and have MH issues. Maybe she's already burnt out with two little ones and can't cope with a big deep and meaningful brunch?

The friends I see most are ones that bring me up, not down - putting the world to rights, having a laugh, talking about crap! Lots of positivity.

I don't have DC but I appreciate how my friend's children are their #1 priority and I always see them on their terms.

Could you be placing too much emotional burden on her? She must feel like shit after your message - she's trying to see you but it's not good enough.

The speakerphone incident was unbelievably rude.

I try to have sympathy for the mums in these ‘child free woman vs mother friend’ threads, but that really is inexcusable and shows how self-absorbed and completely lacking in social decency some parents are. It would have been no trouble at all to say she will call you back if she was busy breastfeeding at that moment.

OP, I’m sorry you’re feeling low and lonely

. I think your friend has priorities that have overwhelmed your friendship. It’s sad that she doesn’t value her friendships enough to get her DH to take the toddler for an hour; I’m not sure why it’s so difficult to engage with a close friend for a relatively short time every couple weeks. But... maybe you could attempt to meet other people rather than wait for her?

I don’t think you can navigate a way to what you want out of this as she clearly doesn’t want the same thing. You can be annoyed with her but ultimately what good will that do? Do you really want a friendship based on her feeling obligated to do what you want? What are you bringing to the friendship? Have you offered to look after her toddler now and then so she gets time with just the baby?
It sounds one sided and I think she’ll run a mile if you push her further.

I don't think you're getting it op - she's made time for you. It's unreal the load that comes with a baby and toddler. She made time and it's still not good enough. There is no successful navigation, you meet her with the children or you don't. You are being extremely unreasonable to be annoyed. You said yourself maybe she's struggling, have you even thought to ask? I'm sorry but the talk about loss and everything, it's very intense. There is no loss, she is trying to juggle your friendship and motherhood. Her children are more important and you need to accept that or find new, childless friends.

You don’t know how your friend is really doing, having a baby and a toddler can be horrific if neither sleep well. She might think you’re judging her or not being supportive. When you’re not sleeping logic goes out the window!
This time will pass and when kids are older it will be much easier to catch up.

I have an almost exact situation with one of my friends. Only one. The rest I see without my toddler because I also want child free time. When I leave them and go back to the monotony of looking after children etc I feel revitalised.

That one friend drains me even more than I am already. She’s exhausting & although I don’t want to lose her twenty year long friendship, I also don’t want to use my childcare to see her. She talks at me for hours as though I am her paid therapist. I am not & I have my own life to deal with.

My other friends would be fine with me bringing any of the children along because they understand that’s how it is sometimes but that one friend has asked if I can be is alone because everything is about her. She is irritated by the division of my attention.

Your friend shouldn’t have put you on loudspeaker, she was wrong for that, but how did you not know? It’s a very obvious sound. If so many people were listening could you not hear them? Do you pay attention to what’s happening around you? My friend doesn’t. Nothing will derail her talking.

im sorry you are finding things difficult. That’s hard but perhaps you could share that with a friend who is less depleted herself.

I posted too soon before finishing my thought.

Thank you for your support Saz as you are right navigating lonlienss in a world were other people have more important priorites is tough

However everyone is right she has made her choices to have children and I made mine to move away. It still doesn't make the loss of the intimacy of friendship any less.

It would be great if anyone had some good stories from down the line in 10 years to say that it all works out in the end though?

Perhaps you need to realise she isn't the right person to be offloading onto. You don't really have the right to be annoyed, it isn't always as simple as not having children with you when you're the main care giver. She may also be struggling herself, none of us know whether she is or not.

You're not unreasonable to want the time with her without the children, but you're unreasonable to expect it.

It was a genuine comment. OP and her friend want different things. I think OP should try to find new friends.

Well I'm your friend in this scenario almost 10 years in and none of my pre kid friendships lasted.

I'd known some of them 15 years or more before the birth

FFS fat finger

The main part is can you hold on? Can you give more to her? Wait this out?

YANBU, but you’ve lost her, OP.

From years of experience of being a childless woman trying to stay friends after my friends became mothers I’d say the best thing for you is to let her go, especially if you’re not likely to have children yourself quite soon. Try and find new friends through a shared interest.

I had one friend that I’d been close to since we were teenagers tell me that the hope that I would start trying for a baby was the only reason she still agreed to see me occasionally (with her child every time) as then we ‘would have something in common again’ then 🙄

Totally agree! Getting a baby and a toddler out of the house to meet is a massive effort, and she is putting herself out in a big way in order to meet you. Toddler free time is really, really precious, and it's a massive imposition for you to ask her to spend it on you.

Just give it space and time, OP. It probably won’t work out tho. If it’s really important you can send a message apologising and offer to meet somewhere that suits her and her kids. Then you can chat about stuff that won’t bring her down or depress her or be too much about you.

I agree with PP’s that if you’re offloading to your friend and expecting a lot of emotional support, that’s too much to ask for. Friendships are definitely better if you combine support with plenty of laughs.

I think you’ve been abit too blunt in your text so I’d follow up and reassure her that you love her children, it’s just that you miss your child free times together- but you understand if that’s not possible at the moment. Things will change, she won’t be bringing them both along forever.

I waited it out, as I really care about this particular friend. It was around the 5 year mark when the friendship stabilised again. I didn't see her much in that time. We texted very sporadically. It is different now, it will be because our lives are different, but it was worth it in my case. We are close again.

Several other friends drifted.

For a lot of parents, a bit of time every few weeks will be the ONLY time they get outside the house without the toddler that's not spent running errands. Therefore, you are asking her to spend ALL of her real leisure time listening to someone unload about their depression.