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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Lived experience re racism on Mumsnet

190 replies

lightlypoached · 03/12/2022 09:17

People on a now suspended/ soon to be deleted thread may know why I'm posting this. I was going to post it there but will start a new (soon to be suspended /deleted I'm sure) thread here instead.

At work we did some 'lived experience' sessions where people openly talked about their everyday experiences of sexism , racism and homophopia. The idea was for everyone to listen to the truth of what was being said, and to learn from it. The 'rules' were that you weren't allowed to challenge someone's story as it is their experienced truth. Questions were welcomed and we all learned a great deal. It was a real eye opener.

It helped me to be more aware and to look out for the more insidious words and actions, so that I would not unwittingly do them, and could call others out if I spotted it.

If ever I see racism on here I'll report but the point is that many (a large majority I suspect) of us are white so we don't always understand or see racism (that's a bit shit, but honest).

I think that some 'lived experience' sharing would help immensely. We could have a one-off special thread that would be allowed to refer to content of old threads as well as real life so we can hear specific types of comment that are problematical, and get under the skin of why. Strict rules on contributions though and no debate - all about listening and learning. We could have that as a pinned thread for people to read and learn from.

Is that a daft idea or could it work?

I'd like to be on a site where everyone feels at home , listened to and respected.

So AIBU to suggest we have a one off lived experience thread about racism ?

OP posts:
randomusername02 · 03/12/2022 09:22

It's pointless imo. Its not healthy validating every case of someone being offended as an ism, especially in cases where its not been intended or isn't actually an ism.

dancingqueen123 · 03/12/2022 09:28

randomusername02 · 03/12/2022 09:22

It's pointless imo. Its not healthy validating every case of someone being offended as an ism, especially in cases where its not been intended or isn't actually an ism.

🙄
It's about listening to how you have made others feel.
Just listening.

LondonWolf · 03/12/2022 09:31

randomusername02 · 03/12/2022 09:22

It's pointless imo. Its not healthy validating every case of someone being offended as an ism, especially in cases where its not been intended or isn't actually an ism.

Agree.

GCAcademic · 03/12/2022 09:32

No thanks. As a WOC, I’m sick of white people telegraphing their white guilt to make themselves look virtuous. I prefer to go about my life without constantly thinking about my skin colour. But now certain terribly virtuous mildly class white colleagues want me to constantly provide fodder for their activism, and to other me in the process. The kind of event that the OP describes at her work was probably absolutely horrible for those colleagues. Whe. we had a similar thing at my work I ended up in tears and should never have been out in that position. It was utterly othering, with a side order of feeling gawped at. The only people it benefitted was the EDI reps who could make themselves feel like they were doing something.

BacklogBritain · 03/12/2022 09:32

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

SurpriseSparDay · 03/12/2022 09:32

To be frank I’m not sure more fetishisation of Black suffering is something I’d want to encourage.

And on the available evidence I don’t think MN would be the right place for any respectful response. The Black MN board is constantly invaded by faux naïf 18th century colonialists who cannot bear not being the centre of the conversation. Not to speak of blatant racists.

So, no - I wouldn’t be participating. But each to their own.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 03/12/2022 09:33

Boring on and on and on

cakeorwine · 03/12/2022 09:34

I do think listening to other people's experiences is important. We only experience the world through our eyes and how people see us and treat us. Only by listening to other people's experiences can we appreciate their perspective.

dollymixtured · 03/12/2022 09:34

God no. The elevation of ‘lived experience’ into some sort of expertise or proof of a political standpoint is ghastly.

AbsoluteYawns · 03/12/2022 09:35

SurpriseSparDay · 03/12/2022 09:32

To be frank I’m not sure more fetishisation of Black suffering is something I’d want to encourage.

And on the available evidence I don’t think MN would be the right place for any respectful response. The Black MN board is constantly invaded by faux naïf 18th century colonialists who cannot bear not being the centre of the conversation. Not to speak of blatant racists.

So, no - I wouldn’t be participating. But each to their own.

Absolutely agree.

Also...you first OP. Why do you want everyone else's stories?

Proteinpudding · 03/12/2022 09:36

I do think it's important but I don't think Mumsnet is a safe enough place for people to do it (as shown by the first responses on this thread)

There's a good article on the BBC news site at the moment about people's experience as related to the 'where are you really from' news story.

Oooooooooooooh · 03/12/2022 09:36

GCAcademic · 03/12/2022 09:32

No thanks. As a WOC, I’m sick of white people telegraphing their white guilt to make themselves look virtuous. I prefer to go about my life without constantly thinking about my skin colour. But now certain terribly virtuous mildly class white colleagues want me to constantly provide fodder for their activism, and to other me in the process. The kind of event that the OP describes at her work was probably absolutely horrible for those colleagues. Whe. we had a similar thing at my work I ended up in tears and should never have been out in that position. It was utterly othering, with a side order of feeling gawped at. The only people it benefitted was the EDI reps who could make themselves feel like they were doing something.

I agree with you

cakeorwine · 03/12/2022 09:37

Would it be different if people were asked to share their experiences of sexism? That happens a lot - there is a whole website devoted to it.

Or their experiences of ageism? Homophobia? Being treated differently because they were disabled?

BacklogBritain · 03/12/2022 09:37

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Hagpie · 03/12/2022 09:38

Not a good start when the majority of white people on this thread have already said they don’t care lmao.

Having said that, there are already a million stories online about this sort of thing if you’re really interested.

dollymixtured · 03/12/2022 09:39

cakeorwine · 03/12/2022 09:37

Would it be different if people were asked to share their experiences of sexism? That happens a lot - there is a whole website devoted to it.

Or their experiences of ageism? Homophobia? Being treated differently because they were disabled?

Not really. Still just allows people to post their own opinion/perspective as unimpeachable fact.

BacklogBritain · 03/12/2022 09:40

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

cakeorwine · 03/12/2022 09:40

The "where are you from" threads certainly showed people's lived experiences - and people seemed happy to contribute their experiences. It opened my eyes to how people have been treated by others.

Thereisnolight · 03/12/2022 09:40

GCAcademic · 03/12/2022 09:32

No thanks. As a WOC, I’m sick of white people telegraphing their white guilt to make themselves look virtuous. I prefer to go about my life without constantly thinking about my skin colour. But now certain terribly virtuous mildly class white colleagues want me to constantly provide fodder for their activism, and to other me in the process. The kind of event that the OP describes at her work was probably absolutely horrible for those colleagues. Whe. we had a similar thing at my work I ended up in tears and should never have been out in that position. It was utterly othering, with a side order of feeling gawped at. The only people it benefitted was the EDI reps who could make themselves feel like they were doing something.

I agree with you and think I’d feel the same.

watcherintherye · 03/12/2022 09:41

As a WOC, I’m sick of white people telegraphing their white guilt to make themselves look virtuous.

And yet, from the other thread

But as you can see, there is tumbleweed from white posters about our experiences.

Damned if you do, and damned if you don’t, it seems. I’ll tell you what, there’s more ‘I’ll say nothing, because I don’t know what I’m allowed to say, and I don’t want to be patronising’, than complicity in racism going on.

PiggyInTheLidl · 03/12/2022 09:42

randomusername02 · 03/12/2022 09:22

It's pointless imo. Its not healthy validating every case of someone being offended as an ism, especially in cases where its not been intended or isn't actually an ism.

  1. People can observe and experience racism without being offended (offended being the new insult, replacing ‘chip on your shoulder’)
  2. Surely it is the unintended but nevertheless racist stuff that those of us who aspire to eliminate and challenge racism can most learn from?
cakeorwine · 03/12/2022 09:42

dollymixtured · 03/12/2022 09:39

Not really. Still just allows people to post their own opinion/perspective as unimpeachable fact.

Show quote history

Their experience is a fact that it happened to them.

There are loads of threads on here where people talk about sexism etc. and share their experiences.

Hagpie · 03/12/2022 09:42

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Here we go talking about racism is the REAL division eh?

You must have read the first few responses so I’m not sure if you’re unable to understand sub-text or…?

Thedoglovesmemore · 03/12/2022 09:42

Interesting responses
POC do not feel or respond the same way to the racism they encounter (surprisingly enough being individuals with their own opinions and sensitivities) and get pretty fed up with their own experiences being rolled out to provide fodder for white people to reflect on even if the intention is to ‘do better’. It’s blunt and voyeuristic

dollymixtured · 03/12/2022 09:45

cakeorwine · 03/12/2022 09:42

Their experience is a fact that it happened to them.

There are loads of threads on here where people talk about sexism etc. and share their experiences.

Show quote history

You appear to be getting opinion and fact confused. I can have an experience when I state that ‘it was a sunny day’ that doesn’t actually mean it objectively was a sunny day, just that I perceived it as such.