Lived experience re racism on Mumsnet

[lightlypoached]

People on a now suspended/ soon to be deleted thread may know why I'm posting this. I was going to post it there but will start a new (soon to be suspended /deleted I'm sure) thread here instead.

At work we did some 'lived experience' sessions where people openly talked about their everyday experiences of sexism , racism and homophopia. The idea was for everyone to listen to the truth of what was being said, and to learn from it. The 'rules' were that you weren't allowed to challenge someone's story as it is their experienced truth. Questions were welcomed and we all learned a great deal. It was a real eye opener.

It helped me to be more aware and to look out for the more insidious words and actions, so that I would not unwittingly do them, and could call others out if I spotted it.

If ever I see racism on here I'll report but the point is that many (a large majority I suspect) of us are white so we don't always understand or see racism (that's a bit shit, but honest).

I think that some 'lived experience' sharing would help immensely. We could have a one-off special thread that would be allowed to refer to content of old threads as well as real life so we can hear specific types of comment that are problematical, and get under the skin of why. Strict rules on contributions though and no debate - all about listening and learning. We could have that as a pinned thread for people to read and learn from.

Is that a daft idea or could it work?

I'd like to be on a site where everyone feels at home , listened to and respected.

So AIBU to suggest we have a one off lived experience thread about racism ?

I have noticed that all of a sudden since farage it's acceptable to make racist comments all over twitter and here you see " I'm not racist but " comments also over the world cup debarcle. I've seen a raise in anti gay /trans etc. Comments. "It's their country their rules". It's given bigots a platform which is sickening

But that is exactly the point. Who are you to say who shouldn't be offended.

How presumptuous of you to assume we are all white, God forbid some woc have agency and think for our bloody selves.

Depending on where they live or work I’m sure that some people encounter blatant, even violent, racism almost every day and others encounter almost none.
And some secure people will be able to shrug off racist episodes from losers and other less lucky or secure people will feel utterly ground down by it.
So one size doesn’t fit all. Forcing people to be quiet doesn’t help, but nor does forcing people to be victims.

I feel like the nature of Mumsnet means that it is not a good place to do this. If someone really wants to learn there a
is plenty of writing about it other places online and there are plenty of books.

I think it's for people who have been victims of racism to decide whether they want a thread about it and what form that would take if so.

How do you think we can talk about experiences of 'isms' then?

I am sure many people on here have experienced different treatment because of their identity. How can people share it and how can it be talked about to raise awareness and see if things can change?

I'm not saying people can't be offended, they can be offended as they want. I'm saying it's not healthy to fawn and validate every instance of someone being offended as an ism, especially where it isn't.

Nah, it's not going to change my opinion. People will use this as an opportunity to be offended by every little thing that was never intended to be offensive. The more it's brought up, the more racist people become tbh.

I know the thread you're talking about (I think) and people were massively over reacting. No one said it was sexist to tell the police that the taxi driver was a man? Why is it racist to say he was south Asian?

Isn't this just asking people of colour to educate white people?

Well exactly! This thread is going to go the same way and should be deleted IMO

I think writing down these experiences won't work as well as the verbal method, because people won't be able to sit on their hands and not type any replies back, replies that won't be simply 'I hear you' but will end up starting arguments. So it's a no from me.

@randomusername02 no we must keep people in check you're right.

OP: "listen up white people - other people's experience is valid, let's hear about it & not derail with debate & whataboutery"

PP:* *It's pointless imo. Its not healthy validating every case of someone being offended as an ism, especially in cases where its not been intended or isn't actually an ism.

TRANSLATOR: It doesn't affect ME, I'm Not A Racist But, lived experience isn't real, if people detect racism they are wrong because I say so, insults to other people are just feeding their isms. And they've all got isms - not me of course, I am white a Default Normal Human

wow the first post, right off the bat!

Interesting that you’re choosing to ignore / straw man the comments from people on this thread who aren’t white.

A persons 'experience' is only ever their interpretation of something. Its never fact

@wincarwoo what about the ‘lived experience’ of members of the klan or paedophiles. Should we simply accept their versions of events? After all who are you to say they are wrong? No group should be unquestioningly validated and listened to, whether it’s #metoo or anything else. There are plenty of POC who would perceive all sorts of racial injustices where I for example would not agree with them (I am a POC for clarity).

Well look at you resorting to use race as an insult. Who's the real racist here?

And again, so presumptious to assume my race, as if women who don't align with your race baiting victimhood must be white. God forbid woc have agency.

I can’t stand all this disappearing up one’s own arsehole ‘lived experience’ shit, mostly peddled by white middle/upper class E&D managers.

If a black person says they have experienced racism, believe them.
If they want to talk to you about it, listen to them.

No to forced sharing at work in order for an organisation to tick some boxes.

👏

I’ve felt similar in such exercises at work - I’m white but we were asked to contribute sexism or misogyny or xenophobia too and I found myself feeling triggered and like I was expected to offer traumatic/insulting experiences as case studies for male/British colleagues to learn and so EDI reps can pat themselves on the back.

It’s a bit “relive your pain, for free, so I as a white person don’t have to do the true work involved in allyship”.

As a white woman it’s my responsibility to educate myself, and seek out resources – of which there are already many online! – not doomscroll through a thread asking WOC to share their suffering a bit more, again, using their time, energy and resources.

Nice bit of performative ‘allyship’ there.