Lived experience re racism on Mumsnet

[lightlypoached]

People on a now suspended/ soon to be deleted thread may know why I'm posting this. I was going to post it there but will start a new (soon to be suspended /deleted I'm sure) thread here instead.

At work we did some 'lived experience' sessions where people openly talked about their everyday experiences of sexism , racism and homophopia. The idea was for everyone to listen to the truth of what was being said, and to learn from it. The 'rules' were that you weren't allowed to challenge someone's story as it is their experienced truth. Questions were welcomed and we all learned a great deal. It was a real eye opener.

It helped me to be more aware and to look out for the more insidious words and actions, so that I would not unwittingly do them, and could call others out if I spotted it.

If ever I see racism on here I'll report but the point is that many (a large majority I suspect) of us are white so we don't always understand or see racism (that's a bit shit, but honest).

I think that some 'lived experience' sharing would help immensely. We could have a one-off special thread that would be allowed to refer to content of old threads as well as real life so we can hear specific types of comment that are problematical, and get under the skin of why. Strict rules on contributions though and no debate - all about listening and learning. We could have that as a pinned thread for people to read and learn from.

Is that a daft idea or could it work?

I'd like to be on a site where everyone feels at home , listened to and respected.

So AIBU to suggest we have a one off lived experience thread about racism ?

@GCAcademic I agree with your post, it’s how I feel as a mixed race woman.

@SomebodyMcSomebody my apologies for my comment about racism and anti-Irish - my interpretation/as far as I knew was related more strictly to race, I was not aware that it included nationality and I was wrong.

Yikes.
Yes I would look out for those who don’t share my ethnicity. I care more about who they are as a person, their values. There are many ghastly people who share my ethnicity and I would not look out for them.

I've come to this post late but I'm very interested in this debate. My chap is half Asian, half white. Born and raised here in Blighty, looked more Asian in a very white area and suffered lots of racism as a child. I've met him 3 years ago, we're in our 40's, he doesn't look obviously Asian to me and could have a bit of Mexican, French, Greek, any number of ethnicities which are predominately dark haired and dark eyed. When I said this to him, he was hugely offended and said he hated being defined by others. I said I wasn't defining him, just that it's not obvious to me and probably others where his ethnicity is from.

During our many debates, he's pretty much told me that white people can't call people who have any colour racist. As racism is colour, and whites are always on top.

He has said some sweeping generalisations about Russians and when I said he was racist, he was livid and said he 'knew' Russians had a hard existence historically and were therefore happy to use sharp elbows and fake friending to get anywhere in life. But racism is colour not nationality. Which I disagree with.

I said I take each individual as an individual.

He thinks this diminishes the pain people of colour go through.

Basically he has had an awful time due to racism over the years and as he's had a lived experience, he knows the topic better than any white person.

I often feel like I take the brunt of the pain and blame which others inflicted on him.

Can someone of colour please spell out very clearly what I'm not getting?

I don't think I'm racist, I call people out if they say the wrong thing. but I don't want to ignorantly exist and still wind up people of colour because there are things I'm not saying, doing or understanding.

Agree

Interesting. My DP is also half Asian, half white. He definitely doesn't look English. He did experience some racism as a child but not too much since then. He has a tight-knit group of friends (mainly English) and works in a multi-racial company. He wouldn't agree with anything your DH says.

I guess it very much depends on a person's life experience. My DP is a strong personality and wouldn't take any shit anyway, and would likely put someone who spouted racist nonsense at him back in their place.

Being honest?
He sounds professionally offended.
Hope he brings something positive to your relationship because he’s certainly making you work hard on tiptoe.

Op, I kind of appreciate you and others trying to do something against racism. I don't see "white guilt" as just virtue signalling. Sometimes the things done to assuage it are misguided or done badly (like the experience that the poster had where a sharing event left her feeling more othered) but on the whole I prefer this than racism or our experiences of racism being brushed under the carpet as the first few posters on this thread have done.

I also think that Mumsnet has a large audience (in the UK) so it's a good platform to share your experiences.

What I don't believe though is that our experiences wouldn't be challenged. No matter how much you tell people that people's experiences are their experiences some people just can't accept it and try to rewrite your own history, which is an extremely frustrating experience. It's happened to me on Mumsnet so unless I'm feeling thick skinned I probably wouldn't subject myself to that again.

I work in a sector (not race related) where lived experience is getting a big old song and dance at the moment, and I actually think it's making things worse in some ways.

There's lots of focus on getting people with lived experience into positions of influence, and lots of emphasis on following what those people want.

Unfortunately, I can objectively set that what those people want is fundamentally a bit broken. Their lived experience has been fucking awful, and they don't know what normal is, so how can they be expected to create and work towards living and education standards that are totally alien to them?

There's also a huge amount of stigma that they feel, and I think that by only sharing their experiences with others who feel the same stigma, they're not learning the confidence to communicate with anybody else - most of whom are earnestly trying to help them.

Is creating a safe space and listening important? Yes. Are people with lived experience the best at working out the solutions to their issues? No. Sometimes they're the worst.

But brainless people take it up without really understanding this.

I am a white immigrant onto another country. I speak the language of my shooter country someone got on the bus today and was making incredibly racist comments about me

I didn't say a word. I'm so cross with myself

Lived experience is all we talk about at work

The problem with lived experience is that it is seen as factual, when anyone's experience, or what they experience is only their experience, its not factual, its their interpretation of events. When its then used to guide policy or practice it becomes one dimensional and biased.

I've come late to this discussion.

I note that OP refers to sexism, racism and homophobia. I guess ageism isn't taken seriously then?

Exactly.

One of my biggest bug bears is the stigma issue. There's a lot of focus on educating public services about the impact trauma might have on accessing services.

But there's none whatsoever on helping service users learn to break down and challenge their feelings of stigma, which can either be imagined or perhaps experienced by everyone, not just them.

(For example - accessing medical services. My BIL had a terrible experience with his doctor when he suffered stress and burnout, and one of our service users recounted an almost identical experience - but put it down to stigma. Nope, some people you meet are just cunts, and it's nothing to do with you!)

Yeah I’d be mortified if I was expected to go over traumatic experiences at work. It’s tactless and dehumanising.

As a WOC I can spell out that he’s hard work and not worth the effort. Plus I’d be wary of dating a man who seemed to think I was by default racist. Honestly he sounds unpleasant and if you feel like he’s holding you in someway responsible for the bad experiences he’s had with other white people I would say he’s low key abusive. Dump him, just get rid.