Lived experience re racism on Mumsnet

[lightlypoached]

People on a now suspended/ soon to be deleted thread may know why I'm posting this. I was going to post it there but will start a new (soon to be suspended /deleted I'm sure) thread here instead.

At work we did some 'lived experience' sessions where people openly talked about their everyday experiences of sexism , racism and homophopia. The idea was for everyone to listen to the truth of what was being said, and to learn from it. The 'rules' were that you weren't allowed to challenge someone's story as it is their experienced truth. Questions were welcomed and we all learned a great deal. It was a real eye opener.

It helped me to be more aware and to look out for the more insidious words and actions, so that I would not unwittingly do them, and could call others out if I spotted it.

If ever I see racism on here I'll report but the point is that many (a large majority I suspect) of us are white so we don't always understand or see racism (that's a bit shit, but honest).

I think that some 'lived experience' sharing would help immensely. We could have a one-off special thread that would be allowed to refer to content of old threads as well as real life so we can hear specific types of comment that are problematical, and get under the skin of why. Strict rules on contributions though and no debate - all about listening and learning. We could have that as a pinned thread for people to read and learn from.

Is that a daft idea or could it work?

I'd like to be on a site where everyone feels at home , listened to and respected.

So AIBU to suggest we have a one off lived experience thread about racism ?

What exactly am I avoiding?

@DuchessofSandwich

"I agree with you but I never dared to say it because I'm white. I feel that constantly pointing out difference in skin colour makes discrimination worse. Of course any racism should be combated but if there's nothing going on then we shouldn't go on about the difference between people but just go on with our lives"

I see what you are saying and what @GCAcademic says too. As with all things those who want to speak up and be heard should be, and those who want to just get on with it should too. We would be nowhere on sex and pay equality if we'd adopted the approach that we are all equal and so nothing more to expose , do, measure or say. As it is on the feminist front pressure was kept on and equal pay is back on the agenda. If we hadn't talked about the difference between men and women then it would still be festering under the carpet.

There's a balance to be had but I don't think we can ignore differences entirely - mainly because some people are discriminatory bastards.

Yes, that's a point. Fecking Daily fecking Mail.

I want to listen & hear if people voluntarily choose to share but i don't like situations of forced participation or when its driven by woke (usually white) HR types.

I find it much more enlightening to hear experiences on a personal level eg from friends or neighbours i know well.

This.

I agree with you.

I suspect that some of the experiences are so common that it wouldn't be identifying at all. Probably be a lot of people saying "Yes, I get that. That could have been about me. Or one of my family. Or a friend'"

Of course - the comments would be the worst.

Oh, I complained about it to my boss (who was in the room at this event and saw how upset I was). But he didn’t care because he’s only interested in his own career, which seems to require signalling to the higher ups that he’s Doing Something wrt EDI.

Also our (Muslim, pakistani heritage) diversity rep at work once suggested to our team that in his experience of living and working in the uk & us, in the UK the class problem is bigger than race (notwithstanding a degree of these being interlinked). He pointed out our (highly paid) professional team was exceptionally diverse.... but we were all from affluent backgrounds, many from private schools, all from russell group universities etc.

Case in point being kwasi kwarteng. In the UK an upper middle class, eton & oxbridge educated black person, is more likely to appear in the cabinet, as a barrister or in a top law firm/ as a doctor, than a white person from a deprived working class background

Thank you for explaining this despite it obviously being a difficult experience. I'm sorry it was like that for you. I think it's really important for people to consider this side. So much of this rhetoric seems to be about white people self importantly declaiming their unwanted support! When many POC say they find it divisive and infantilising.

Good on you for raising a complaint, it's a shame it fell on deaf ears.

This patronising belittling attitude needs to get in the bin.

But hate speech isn’t legal? Racism, homophobia isn’t free speech?

It’s on me, really. I shouldn’t have engaged with pp who say that if we consider the lived experience of PoC then we have to consider the lived experience of the KKK. What a great example of false equivalency. I bit the bait.

That was not what was being suggested, it is the concept that everyone's lived experience is valid and cant be questioned/challenged/explored

You havent in all your posts been able to set out an argument as to why everyone's lived experience should be validated and whether that is a flawed concept. Who do you pick and choose?

You havent in all your posts been able to set out an argument as to why everyone's lived experience should be validated and whether that is a flawed concept

What do you mean validated?

If I tell you something has happened to me, you can believe me or not.

If I say that I think it was because I am (insert identity here), then that is my opinion.

What happened to me is a fact. It's an opinion that it happened because of my identity.

You don't have to believe my opinion. Would you believe my experience?

As a white person who has aided and helped many Chinese students in the UK over the last ten years, it really shocked me to hear how much out and out racism is still out there. But that I mean direct verbal abuse and intimidation - people shouting out on a street (when no other pedestrians around) or using verbal use face to face. Perpetrators tend to be people in their teens and twenties, but also some older people. The vast majority of it is done “in private” ie out of ear shot of other passers by. I’d just never realised how much it still goes on.

Though of course the UK is not unique in this deplorable aspect, or even one of the worst: I’ve know a few Chinese students who were studying in the Netherlands the last few years, and some of the stuff they tell me, and the frequency of it, is absolutely shocking.

@greentrees9

For some reason (perhaps the influence of right wing tabloids and Youtube influencers?) many British people nowadays seem to believe that the only racism that exists today across the West is of the “over sensitive/PC gone mad!” variety. Of course nothing could be farther from the truth.

As 'White-British'. That's almost all I know about my lineage, due to recent ancestors being keen to cover their tracks or illiterate.
I'm very jealous of those with a known or discernible heritage and keen to learn more about parts of the world that I'll never visit personally.
There is value in understanding objective facts that relate to one's lived experience, but to give weight to the purely subjective generates bitterness without any benefit - after all we all know where the best Jollof rice comes from.

Read the post.

You still don’t get it. You seem unable to understand that just because someone has a view that something happened that doesn’t make it a fact.

If I tell you something happened, it happened.

A man called me 'love' and offered to help me change a car tyre.

That happened. It's a fact

You can't say, for certain, why it happened. If someone behaves in a particular way, without telling you, you can't always accurately assert their reasons.

No it’s not a fact! It’s your understanding and interpretation of a series of circumstances and interactions. The facts might be your car tyre burst and there was a man there. The rest is just your recount.

Ok, I will bite. I am S Asian. Here are some annoying experiences I recently had. Please note: I am not traumatised and neither do I need a safe space for these.

(1) Went to a book group. We all introduced ourselves. Another Asian woman introduced herself as Annie. She had a two syllable typical Asian name, but she felt the need to say it would be too difficult for the group to remember though apparently they could remember names like Alexandra and Anne Marie. When it came to my turn, I said my full 3 syllable name, only for someone to ask if they could call me K. I said no. Then she said "Oh well I won't be able to remember your full name" I looked like the sulky one. I have a beautiful name which means something, and K doesnt mean anything. Make an effort to learn our names. We learn yours!

(2) At another social group I attend regularly- say once a month- the organiser books tables with our names. I noticed recently that I am always put next to the other S Asian woman, presumably because we have things in common. Actually, we have nothing in common. I am not afraid of white British people; why are they afraid of me FGS? Going to ask to be moved next time.

@Lentilweaver (love the username)
Another seating example (of sexism) :

I remember as one of only 3 women at a corporate event being split up from the other females as 'we need to spread out the women so that everyone gets some table Totty'

Yes, they actually said table totty. It was like being allocated out like a commodity. Disgraceful. Your situation sounds similar. Ffs

And thank you for sharing your examples.

Can I ask how you feel if people ask you how to correctly pronounce your name ?

I've worked with a fair few Indians and Romanians before and I always struggled with knowing which were male and female names. I kind of work through that.

I too despair when people make no effort to get names right. Some are tricky (I find Irish ones so hard and unintuitive because I don't see them often) but all you need to do is listen and copy. How hard is that ?