Parents refuse use of vaccinated blood in life-saving surgery on baby - New Zealand

[NadjaCravensworth]

The parents of the baby discussed their son’s health situation and their medical preferences in an interview with an anti-vaccination campaigner.
In the interview the parents say their baby has severe pulmonary valve stenosis, and that he needs surgery “almost immediately”, but that they are “extremely concerned with the blood [the doctors] are going to use”.
“We don’t want blood that is tainted by vaccination,” the father said. “That’s the end of the deal – we are fine with anything else these doctors want to do.”

So you would rather your baby died than had blood from someone who is vaccinated.

At what point does this not become child abuse / murder - this child could die due to the beliefs of the parents?

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/30/new-zealand-parents-refuse-use-of-vaccinated-blood-in-life-saving-surgery-on-baby

My intuition says that surely it takes months for them to study the disease, let alone come up with and produce the vaccine.

It took a year....

Most drug testing takes several years because most of those years are spent with NOTHING happening, except the scientists bidding for funds, being rejected by a funded, writing another bid, waiting waiting waiting. They're not all spending years looking down a microscope repeating the same experiment over and over and over. With Covid the money was there straight away so none of that bidding for funding process that takes so long was necessary.

Not that you'll view things differently if you go on 'intuition'

Unless you are a vaccine specialist or researcher, you too went on intuition when deciding to take the vaccine.

No, I went on trust. Very different.

Not all arguments have equal sides to them. If 1000 scientists say this is safe, and 2 say it’s not, why is the 2 more persuasive than the 1000?

It’s nothing to do with intuition or intelligence, it’s to do with wanting to be different, special, go against the mainstream.

@titchy the vaccine development for COVID 19 also built on existing work done for SARS and MERS so did not start from ground zero.

@titchy. Yes I've heard all those arguments before, thanks. As you realised, my mind has not been changed.

In the case of other diseases, i assume the long process to approve vaccines will highlight most issues, long before the whole world gets vaccinated.

Same thing in my mind. I do not trust the government.

You can't argue with people who put 'feelz' before reason. It is a damaging mindset, sadly.

Unless you are a vaccine specialist or researcher, you too went on intuition when deciding to take the vaccine.

My DD, who lives with me, is exactly that. She has a first-class Masters in control of infectious diseases from a UK top-2 university and now works in the field. All her fellow students, lecturers and tutors, people who work in the bio-secure lab where she does her research, are vaccinated.

So I didn't need to rely on intuition or my gut, I could ask people who are vaccine specialists and researchers first hand. I could explain the science to you but as you've already admitted you don't listen to the science, I don't think I'm going to waste my time.

No I didn't "rely on intuition" because i'm not a fecking numpty.

I listened to all the hundreds of PhDs, medical doctors, scientists with thousands of years of medical study between them who were saying I should have it, and wasn't arrogant enough to think my "intuition" trumped their knowledge and education.

I appreciate your position on it and understand why you feel the way you do.

To those who are resorting to insults, I do wonder why though. Im not insulting anyone, just putting forward a different viewpoint.

I will leave this thread now because I won't be changing my mind and I have no desire to change anyone else's. You are entitled to make your own choices.

Flapjackquack

Not all arguments have equal sides to them. If 1000 scientists say this is safe, and 2 say it’s not, why is the 2 more persuasive than the 1000?

The two, of course - if you're a conspiracy delusionist!

No, normally it goes like this:
Research and Development……… nothing whilst waiting for funding……. Waiting some more…… research and development…. Waiting for funding and permissions…. Phase 1 trials….. nothing whilst they wait for funding and permissions... Phase 2 trials…. Waiting for funding and permissions… Phase 3 trials…. Waiting for the regulator to get to you in the queue… approval. No further testing.

Covid went like this: Governments of the world: “here have all our money to find a vaccine” - research & development, phase 1, phase 2, phase 3 trials. Front of queue with regulator, approval. The world’s population scrutinising it.

Imagine how many other diseases we could eradicate with the funding the covid vaccine had.

Are the parents also including those who have had covid in their 'we don't want blood from' group ? All those nasty antibodies they hate from vaccinated donors would be in the covid havers blood too ?

Agreed. If you ignore what thousands and thousands of experts in the field are saying because you think your gut trumps those experts, then you're not some brave outlier with access to knowledge that most people don't have, you're just thick.

@BirmaBrite and what about all the people like me who have been vaccinated and have had (mild) COVID?

Because you can’t take a pint of blood out of a baby! And this is for a heart operation so they are probably going to need a lot of blood

@TeaAndJaffacakes bet you thought you’d never have to explain that to someone!

My daughter was born with this exact medical condition and I find this so upsetting.

Surgery at one day old saved her life. I would have given every drop of blood in my body to save her and while she has thrived and is now a teenager the trauma has scarred both me and DH.

So many people in the world lose children to avoidable conditions because they don't have access to the sort of medical care we have in both the UK and, in this case, New Zealand. These parents need their heads knocking together.

I don’t think they’re necessarily thick but I do believe that an awful lot of people with this view don’t like being told they don’t understand something. They take it as an insult that others (scientists in this case) have knowledge that is difficult to acquire and fully understand. Ego is the culprit here imho.

my personal pet theory is they’re by and large just plain scared. It’s a lot easier to opt out of reality.

and what about all the people like me who have been vaccinated and have had (mild) COVID?

Has anything dropped off ?

@Cornettoninja I think that sums it up pretty well - ego and fear.

@BirmaBrite I still have all my appendages and sadly have failed to grow an extra arm - would come in really useful when wrestling worming tablets into an unhappy cat!

Very hard decision. I’d be worried about the calamari.

There's something really quite arrogant (imo) about a person acknowledging their ignorance yet having more faith in their own "intuition" than the opinion of experts.

That said trying to argue the case is like the pigeon/chess thing. I mean, seriously, blood-donor babies ffs!

medical fact - there is absolutely no danger to a person receiving blood from somebody with covid antibodies… you can get antibodies from either infection or vaccination or combination of both.

medical fact - blood is screened for multiple infections such as HIV and hep B (so infections vs antibodies) Doors are also screened to make sure they are not at risk of infection. If the 20 people now volunteering have not donated blood before then the safety of blood supply is at risk because they do have an ulterior motive to not answer the screening questions correctly.

They're twats and need a slap.

Jesus wept.