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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Scotland, (Wales and NI) has the right to self determination?

204 replies

Fragmentsof2022 · 24/11/2022 05:37

*MNHQ has deleted an image at the request of the OP"

So the Supreme Court voted yesterday to not allow Scotland Indy ref 2 without the permission of Westminster, ending the idea that Scotland (and wales, NI) are participants in a voluntary union.

International law states that:

“Self-determination denotes the legal right of people to decide their own destiny in the international order.
Self-determination is a core principle of international law, arising from customary international law, but also recognized as a general principle of law, and enshrined in a number of international treaties.
For instance, self-determination is protected in the United Nations Charter and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights as a right of “all peoples.”Self-determination denotes the legal right of people to decide their own destiny in the international order.
Self-determination is a core principle of international law, arising from customary international law, but also recognized as a general principle of law, and enshrined in a number of international treaties.
For instance, self-determination is protected in the United Nations Charter and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights as a right of “all peoples.”

So, Aibu to think that Scotland (and Wales, Ni) has the right to decide it’s own future if it wants? And that includes the right to another referendum if it wants?

Interesting image doing the rounds on Twitter! I speak as an “Indy curious” Welsh person who had never considers Welsh independence until recently because we have always been told we were too poor, too small etc and I don’t nescessarily believe that anymore!

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 24/11/2022 18:25

What are the criteria ...?

The criteria are based on historical borders of kingdoms or obv islands.

Scotland was incorporated into the United Kingdom around 1700, Ireland around 1800, then divided in 1922.

DownNative · 24/11/2022 18:48

FortSalem86 · 24/11/2022 16:08

I didn't realise that Scotland had been the subject of a recent genocide campaign. 🙄 She is a muppet.

Thankfully, the UK Supreme Court used established international case law to knock that down pretty easily!

Well worth reading the whole 35 page Supreme Court document to see their reasoning.

It doesn't make for easy reading for Nationalists though....

DownNative · 24/11/2022 19:01

mathanxiety · 24/11/2022 18:22

NI has a different constitutional arrangement vis a vis the UK because of the Belfast Agreement, aka the Good Friday Agreement.

Northern Ireland's constitutional arrangement is based entirely on international law.

Specifically, the independent sovereign power is the only authority that can grant a referendum. Same as with Scotland.

Indeed, the sovereign power still retains the same degree of control vis a vis a border poll as well. As with Scotland, the sovereign power does NOT have to spell out the criteria before it will consent to a border poll.

The sovereign power can step in to legislate in Stormont and it can do so in the other two as well if necessary.

In short, the Belfast Agreement is based on the international law already outlined. International law makes it clear Sovereignty rests with independent states and so does the Belfast Agreement itself.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 24/11/2022 19:05

@Everydaywheniwakeup
In addition:
Many of us depend on English hospitals so agree with you. People should stop listening to nationalistic hot air and live in the real world with real issues that matter to us all.

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