To think Scotland, (Wales and NI) has the right to self determination?

[Fragmentsof2022]

*MNHQ has deleted an image at the request of the OP"

So the Supreme Court voted yesterday to not allow Scotland Indy ref 2 without the permission of Westminster, ending the idea that Scotland (and wales, NI) are participants in a voluntary union.

International law states that:

“Self-determination denotes the legal right of people to decide their own destiny in the international order.
Self-determination is a core principle of international law, arising from customary international law, but also recognized as a general principle of law, and enshrined in a number of international treaties.
For instance, self-determination is protected in the United Nations Charter and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights as a right of “all peoples.”Self-determination denotes the legal right of people to decide their own destiny in the international order.
Self-determination is a core principle of international law, arising from customary international law, but also recognized as a general principle of law, and enshrined in a number of international treaties.
For instance, self-determination is protected in the United Nations Charter and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights as a right of “all peoples.”

So, Aibu to think that Scotland (and Wales, Ni) has the right to decide it’s own future if it wants? And that includes the right to another referendum if it wants?

Interesting image doing the rounds on Twitter! I speak as an “Indy curious” Welsh person who had never considers Welsh independence until recently because we have always been told we were too poor, too small etc and I don’t nescessarily believe that anymore!

I didn't say you created it.....🤷‍♂️

But you seem to have sided with Nationalists on the issue and presumably support it?

After all, your OP deliberately misleads and distorts what international law actually says about secession and self-determination rights......

@DownNative as I said, I am ‘Indy curious’ and was interested to hear views - I don’t know if I am a nationalist yet to be honest.. The image was part of what was going round yesterday - I said it was ‘interesting’ in inverted commas.

NORTHERN Ireland.

Although technically your sentence is correct, as Ireland is most certainly a country.

@LivingOnAPrayerYes as are Wales and Scotland.

Eh? I never said they weren't. I was simply pointing out the fact that you were using Ireland and Northern Ireland as interchangeable names in your posts.

@LivingOnAPrayerYes sorry, i misread your comment too. I can actually see Irish unity happening before Welsh & Scottish independence though

I have no opinion either way (not allowed to vote in a Scottish referendum), but I can see why independence is pushed for by a lot of Scots.

The UK has a conservative government - there are only 4 or 5 conservative MPs in Scottish constituencies (I think about 10% of MPs representing Scotland). Plus, 62% of Scottish people voted to remain in the European Union with every council area having a majority for remain. So as a Scottish person living in England, I can see why many Scots feel that Westminster is not representative of their views or is not acting necessarily in their interest.

It's definitely NOT "interesting" by any means! It's a grotesque distortion of the law in all its forms.

I note you've failed to comment on your distortion of international law on self-determination and secession as well. Yep, you cannot argue against the actual law I've provided.

The gap in the poll above is growing.

What about the north east ?

What about Newcastle ?

What about femham ( small part of Newcastle )

What are the criteria for "self determination"

As others have said they voted and lost once very recently

Although brexit majorly changed what they voted to stay part of

A solution would be better representation in the UK parliament not rule by the tories based on the results in a few constituencies

Scotland voted to be part of the UK. The UK then voted for Brexit. They can’t keep voting to leave every time something they don’t like happens.

@DownNative I am not deliberately distorting international law at all. I am asking a question and saying I’m Indy curious.

Many leading commentators in Scotland (and wales) are all talking about self determination today and lack of democracy at Westminster making decisions about another country having a right to decide their own future and I agree.

The lack of democracy In Westminster affects the whole of the UK

That should be sorted then perhaps the drivers for Scottish independence would be less strong

Agree with this.

And DownNative legal pov

How many times can you keep having a referendum though?

The question was asked. The vote was no.

Surely that settles it at least for a good while. This is the problem with UK law though that these things are not set down ie no rules on how long you must wait to repeat same referendum. Also allows ridiculous abstract questions, when really people should know exactly what they are voting for.

We had a vote.
It was no.
At the last election more people voted for unionist parties than SNP.
That woman is ruining our country with the power she already has.

@midgetastic yes quite

Ffs we voted no. Respect democracy will you? We decided.

The SNP have obliterated the Scottish education system, the Scottish NHS is a shambles. But people only care about independence and not their country being run into the ground by incompetents.

Just waiting for "but Westminster" to trot up as an excuse for fully devolved issues 🙄

That image is awful, and considering the Scottish Government stance on women's rights, an absolute joke. The cartoonist scored a real own goal there.

@kingvizzytarg why do people keep voting SNP into power then? They have most of the parliamentary seats in Scotland. People know what they stand for.

I assume they will stand in the next election on a single issue so will be interesting to see what happens then

That's interesting you say stop the hate and then resort to name calling...

And yet here we are all sucking up the effects of the universally popular Brexit vote.

It's so ridiculous that so many of the Brexit tropes banded around be ore the EU vote are equally relevant to a Scottish independence vote but are now shouted own by the very people who were frothing at the mouth to have the same argument about the EU.

I don't think referenda should be allowed to make massive changes with out a massive majority, at least 60-40 if not 65-35. Or a 50%+1should have a repeat referendum say 10 years later before action.

I therefore think that a) Brexit shouldn't have gone through and b) The Scots had their chance, they can't keep repeating this every few years until by luck once it just gets through by a slim vote.

Exactly this, I completely agree Scotland was entitled to a referendum and they’ve had one in very recent memory.

You can’t keep redoing it - what about the people who voted then to stay? Why isn’t their vote being accepted and stood by?

You can’t keep repeating a referendum to change the result!

I personally didn’t vote for Brexit and we’ve not been offered a second vote, why is Scotlands referendum any different, they had an opportunity already.

@TeenDivided I do agree about referendums. They are a dreadful way to decide anything and Brexit was a classic example of this particularly with all the lies. But there should be a way for a country to decide it’s own future if it wants

I live in Scotland and do feel this way. Brexit finished me off entirely. I do not think it is ok to be represented by people so clearly rejected by Scotland, or to be taken out of the EU when there was a decisive remain vote.

That said, there needs to be at least 10 years between referendums surely?