To ask HOW he/they or she/they works?

[Henuinequest]

On a DE&I video call at work and the session panel did intros with pronouns stated - 2 of them said ‘I’m he/them’ and one said ‘she/they’. All panellist were trans identifying.

asking a practical question - if someone is he/ them, I’m fine just to to refer to him as he or him? As in ‘ let’s wait 2 mins to see if Josh is coming. He said he could make it’ or I’m I supposed to be saying them ??
the panel was all about trans day of remembrance or something like that so it didn’t feel appropriately to start asking them…

I definitely seen people who meant I am cool with either but honestly the etiquette is far from agreed universal and settled.

He/they means they're fine with being referred to as he or they so either is fine. It's polite to remember people's preferences in the same way it's polite to remember that Susan prefers to be called Sue or that Danny prefers Daniel but no one is going to have a go at you for forgetting when it's people who are new to you and you're still learning their names/preferences.

I saw someone getting schooled on Twitter for not alternating them, first pronoun first: ie ‘she drove their car to her job after their appointment…’

It’s incomprehensible, and a massive communication barrier to all kinds of people.

Okay then - how DO I address someone who says they are both HE and THEY?
I get that they’re signalling some kind of non- binary status but in a practical level those are different so how does it work?

Use either as you see fit. Some people are very uncomfortable with using “they” for outdated grammatical reasons, or for gender critical reasons.

As I understand it, you should use the pornouns interchangeably, but make an effort to use the first preferred pronoun more than the second.

So, if a person goes by she/they, you should try to use say 60% she and 40% they.

Whereas if their preffered pronouns were they/he, you should use 60% they and 40% he.

It might be quite challenging for anyone who is neurodiverse, has a brain injury, a speech impediment, or for someone who's first language is not English.

It means you can use either.

For some people it's a bit of a concession, i.e. 'I'd like to be a 'they' but appreciate that's difficult for some people - so call me 'he' if that's more comfortable'.

For others they just don't mind and identify with both. Like someone introducing themself saying 'Call me Tom or Thomas, whichever you prefer'.

Just take it at face value and pick one to use.

@Endwalker its not about ‘forgetting’ it’s about how to address when someone says that. If it was they/them I’d be fine.
I am LGBT too btw but none of my trans friends are anything but he/him or she/her

‘Use either as you see fit. Some people are very uncomfortable with using “they” for outdated grammatical reasons, or for gender critical reasons.’

ok. Seems almost pointless announcing it then. I would have takin either of the he’s to be anything other than he if they hadn’t have announced it.

Totally makes sense.

I think if you are ever unsure, the best way is always to simply ask the person you're talking to. It's fine to ask, the same as you might ask someone if they want you to use a nickname or not.

The whole idea, in my understanding, is to use preferred pronouns and ask if not sure. The key is not to make assumptions - hence displaying preferred pronouns.

So I'd ask if unsure. Maybe they mean it's fine to use either neutral or gender specific?

I've got to admit the only person I know well that uses any gender neutral pronouns is non binary and just uses completely neutral they/ their. So using a combination of him/theirs I think I would find a bit of getting used to!

I guess you're supposed to try your best - 'sam said they'd give me a hand with this but he got called to ICU so I'm still looking for someone'. Not far off what you'd say anyway if they are obviously male.

In real life you'd probably just overneutralise the pronouns to avoid getting it wrong -' Sam said uhd be around but I think thud got called away'. I think a kind of grunt is probably the most-used neutral pronoun.

Maybe forgetting was the wrong word, unsure instead.

Trans people are the safest demographic, less likely to be killed than anyone else. There are more trans murderers from over the last ten years than there are TW murdered.

@SparklingJam Do you have a source for this please? Could be useful to know to quote from.

I’d also like a source for this. I notice you said more trans murderers than TW, what about TM too?

This article goes into detail.

Trans people are the safest demographic, less likely to be killed than anyone else. There are more trans murderers from over the last ten years than there are TW murdered.‘

yhat just isn’t true, though is it? If you’re talking about hate crimes then LGBTQ+ people are NOT the safest demographic

@electricdreaming to my knowledge the murdered and the murderers are all male.

I actually have great difficulty using preferred pronouns. I am autistic, and using wrong-sex pronouns is incredibly difficult and means I end up not able to talk or join in.

Trans remembrance day has been a 'thing' since it was established in 1999 so not exactly new. People taking a moment to reflect or wanting to mark the occasion has no impact on you whatsoever.

www.forbes.com/sites/jamiewareham/2021/11/11/375-transgender-people-murdered-in-2021-deadliest-year-since-records-began/?sh=fb1d533321c4

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/17/trans-people-twice-as-likely-to-be-victims-of-in-england-and-wales

I'd be interested to see figures on the number of trans murderers if you have them.

She didn't say LGBTQ though, did she? She said Trans.

When referring to trans people, and specifically TW yes it’s true.

We’re fed such a pack of lies about the gender movement, and not enough people are brave enough to stand up to its might.

Links to unHerd? <snort>

At least link to something factual rather than The Daily Privilege.

When anything designed to celebrate women or even just designed to inform women, is impacted hugely by gender ideology it’s only natural that people are going to question the overly emotive outpourings of trans day of rememberence, particularly when the “facts” we're told are untrue.

There are other places, but unfortunately women speaking out about this hideously misogynistic movement have very limited outlets.